Hertfordshire regiment right facing and Hartfordshire Regiment collar badge
Churchill makes reference to the above, but provides no evidence. Can anyone provide said evidence of the right facing badge or the traditional Hatfordshire spelling version to prove his statement?
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The museum at Hertford had this Volunteer right facing collar, but if you look closely its slightly strange with the antlers unfinished ?, and not matched to the other as the front leg is not in the air.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply to my question :) I am very familiar with the Hertford museum collection as I lived for several years and still work in the town. The badge that my query relates to is KK 1805 or Churchill 2007 which Churchill claims was worn in the collar by some Officers in 1911 and is said to be found with the hart facing to the right and, this is crucial to my research, "is also known with the spelling "Hartfordshire", the traditional spelling" (sic). I am curious as to if he found any evidence and if he did then it is very possible that others (on this forum perhaps?) can assist in proving that these two badges do in fact exist. Below is the pattern of badge that I refer to for clarity. |
So, I think that I have exhausted all the avenues that are available to myself now and I guess that the subject matter is a little bit specialised being a Territorial Regiment with limited interest. Sadly, I only know of two Hertfordshire Regiment collectors on the forum, orasot and gb64 with any knowledge of the regiment and my outside contacts have drawn a blank :( So given the lack of evidence on all fronts, I believe and I am ready to be corrected, that Churchill was using rumours, hearsay and word of mouth, much like Gaylor when he published his works.
I will let this one rest now until I can find more time to probe that little bit deeper than I already have..... |
Just giving this one a little nudge just in case.
Sadly, I still haven't found any evidence. |
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A most interesting item that you show, but it is specifically the 1908 pattern cap badge that Churchill mentions with the Hart facing to the right. I have chased this "unicorn" of a badge all over our county, but to no avail! |
It's been a few years now, so I thought I might give this a nudge to see if anyone has come across anything? Although I haven't given this the time I once might of, I am still curious to know what Churchill was on about.
Andrew |
It's breaking my hart that this thread is not getting a definite answer, as its a subject so deer to you.
I absolutely can not help you, sorry, mate. I will be interested to see any thing that may crop up. |
Thanks Phil, hopefully people will fallow your lead and reply. I find it staggering that no one has seen the badge that Churchill refers to.
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I don't currently have access to my copies of K&K, or Churchill. I don't suppose you are able post an image of the entry in Churchill's book at all, please? Without being able to see the pictures and text, I assume the badge allegedly worn by officers in the collar, would have been a looped cap badge, rather than a modified slidered badge... or have I completely misunderstood (nothing unusual there :o)? With thanks, JT |
Morning JT,
Page 327 "History of the British Army collar badge" by Collin Churchill "Although no Official record has been located it is believed that, in 1911 only, some officers wore on their Service Dress, the cap badge in bronze (Fig. 2007). It is also said that this pattern is known with the hart facing to the right. This pattern is known with the spelling 'Hartfordshire', the traditional spelling". So, although Churchill doesn't illustrate either, I would love to know where he got his information and what evidence he had seen. He was certainly confident enough to publish it, but would that have been based on rumours alone? Shown below a bronzed HERTFORDSHIRE officer badge with lugs (the same as Fig. 2007) and just for interest, an officers cap badge with the HARTFORDSHIRE spelling |
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https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...=Hartfordshire |
Yes, I saw that. Churchill definitely specifically refers to the collar badge with the hart facing right being the same pattern as the cap badge (Fig. 2007). I do wonder if there was some confusion when he was compiling information for his book and the collar badge was in fact the one illustrated in the thread you linked to.
I guess unless someone has this unicorn, we will never know! |
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