British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/index.php)
-   General Topics. (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31)
-   -   Extruded Sliders (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39350)

Phil2M 08-05-14 11:25 AM

Extruded Sliders
 
So called extruded sliders, i am going to upset a few people now.........in my oponion, the metal was extruded but the slider was merely cut off and bent over (which is not extrusion), by the badge maker. Its a slider made from extruded metal not an 'extruded slider', surely????

So rather than simply "extruded slider" it should be "extruded metal, slider"

Splitting hairs maybe but, hey, im in that kind of mood today.

Phil

2747andy 08-05-14 11:43 AM

Not biting!

:D

54Bty 08-05-14 12:30 PM

Not a clue what you are on about, a slider is a slider, unless it is a shank.

Marc :)

gb64 08-05-14 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil2M (Post 261803)
So called extruded sliders, i am going to upset a few people now.........in my oponion, the metal was extruded but the slider was merely cut off and bent over (which is not extrusion), by the badge maker. Its a slider made from extruded metal not an 'extruded slider', surely????

So rather than simply "extruded slider" it should be "extruded metal, slider"

Splitting hairs maybe but, hey, im in that kind of mood today.

Phil

That's lost me completely (no that difficult I know):confused::o
I just thought it referred to the longer length of slider say for a pagri badge or to the sometimes found slider that sticks out from the badge at its point of connection more than the norm??::confused:am I of track

Gerard

LONGSHANKS 08-05-14 12:53 PM

Hi Gerard, an extruded slider is a reference to the method that the slider shank itself was manufactured by. As opposed to a stamped slider which is then bent over the top (resulting some the crimp), and then brazed to the badge.
An extruded one is one that slider is cut from an extruded flat long length of rod. Cut to the required length, and then bent over, again resulting in the crimp.

Here is an example, and as you can see the rounding of the end is hand done on a grinder roughly and not symmetrical, then bent and applied. Mostly seen I think on cheaper badges or econ's in this case. As I imagine it was cheaper than stamping maybe.

The other clue as you can see, are the feighnt lines the length of the slider shank, which was due to an imperfection in the extrusion die.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=79653

Regards

Simon.

davec2 08-05-14 12:56 PM

Phil is referring to a type of brass strip some times used for making sliders ( also known as shanks ) which are a fixing medium for cap badges in general.

Some times the sliders ( shanks ) are cut and bent from a strip of extruded brass strip and a lot of people, myself included call them extruded sliders, the other usual method for making sliders ( shanks ) is to stamp them out of brass sheet.

You are not splitting hairs Phil, I believe the correct terminology might be splitting infinitives but at the end of the day we all say what we are comfortable with and saying " extruded sliders " is a lot easier than " sliders cut and bent from a length extruded brass strip ", know what I mean lol ??? :D

I think to 99.9% of people they are just sliders ?? to expand the discussion, is it lugs or loops ??? ;) :p

Dave.

2747andy 08-05-14 12:58 PM

Simon,
pipped me to the post, see here

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=14733

I use the term when referring to this type of slider, and will continue to do so despite any pedantic observation.

:D

Andy

LONGSHANKS 08-05-14 01:00 PM

Sorry Andy...... I thought you would in the end as we have discussed this feature a few time in the past.

Cheers

Simon.

gb64 08-05-14 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davec2 (Post 261818)
Phil is referring to a type of brass strip some times used for making sliders ( also known as shanks ) which are a fixing medium for cap badges in general.

Some times the sliders ( shanks ) are cut and bent from a strip of extruded brass strip and a lot of people, myself included call them extruded sliders, the other usual method for making sliders ( shanks ) is to stamp them out of brass sheet.

You are not splitting hairs Phil, I believe the correct terminology might be splitting infinitives but at the end of the day we all say what we are comfortable with and saying " extruded sliders " is a lot easier than " sliders cut and bent from a length extruded brass strip ", know what I mean lol ??? :D

I think to 99.9% of people they are just sliders ?? to expand the discussion, is it lugs or loops ??? ;) :p

Dave.

Thanks Simon I've got it now:D I was off track a little so thanks something else to store in the old memory bank! Extruded slider seems a good term used and understood so Phil don't change it as I'll have to learn more stuff;)

Gerard

LONGSHANKS 08-05-14 01:23 PM

My pleasure Gerard. Also, for me anyway; it's a good sign along with other positive features as a good badge. I haven't seen them on fakes. I may be wrong though, if someone has an example.

Simon

graham 29-03-19 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2747andy (Post 261820)
Simon,
pipped me to the post, see here

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=14733

I use the term when referring to this type of slider, and will continue to do so despite any pedantic observation.

:D

Andy

Why is it when I click on this link [and occasionally others] it says I do not have permission to access that page ?

Graham.

Jelly Terror 29-03-19 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by graham (Post 473816)
Why is it when I click on this link [and occasionally others] it says I do not have permission to access that page ?

Graham.

Because the person to whom the images in the album belong is no longer a member. For some reason this means their album(s) are not accessible.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=69167

graham 04-04-19 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror (Post 473817)
Because the person to whom the images in the album belong is no longer a member. For some reason this means their album(s) are not accessible.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=69167

I see. Thank you.

Graham

Frank Kelley 14-04-19 04:02 PM

I always tend to associate them with Great War period pieces, although, they continue beyond.


Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS (Post 261826)
My pleasure Gerard. Also, for me anyway; it's a good sign along with other positive features as a good badge. I haven't seen them on fakes. I may be wrong though, if someone has an example.

Simon


mike c 14-04-19 07:12 PM

Link
 
I was just going to say that Graham I was wondering why I didn't have permission

dumdum 15-04-19 03:29 AM

Hi all

Approaching things from someone with an interest in how things are made, I once recall speaking to a retired jeweller who said that the "lines" you get on lugs on cap badges and the like are due to badly worn (or rusty) drawplates.

His comment was also that badges with a flat back (often seen on lapel badges and the like) that are a little "rough" can be put down to heavy scarring (from less than careful use) on the "head" of the hammer that strikes the badge.

Neibelungen 15-04-19 09:24 AM

From a manufacturing perspective, it's unlikely that the finished stock for sliders is extruded.
Rather, the raw square or round bar stock is initially extruded (pushed under extreme presure of about 250 to 1000 tons while in a red hot state through a conforming die).
It would then be anealed and set through either a rolling mill to dimension it (or flatten if round stock) before being sent through a draw plate if a precise profile or dimensional shape was required.

Typically complex 3d shapes like H beams or 'L' section are extruded directly to finished shape, the rest would be produced as round or rectangular bar which would be processes in a far less demanding (force and temperature) method.
Rolling mills can work with long straight length or continious coil, and apart from annealing, don't require complex hydraulic forces as the mechanical force is basically compressive screw pressure and the rolling action provides the mechanical power to move the object through.
Draw benches can be hand or mechanical power and are graduated down to size reducing the force required to relatively small steps.
final stock material would be in long strips or coils and these would then pass through a cropping machine (usually onsite or subcontracted) to produce end profiles (round on one side and flat on the other side of the blanking die) on half of each part. As it progresses, the flat finishes the previous piece and the round crops the start of the next.

Blanking would require much more force and leave a rim and a lot more waste material, but could work with wider stock, cropping them horizontally across a strip, either individually or as a gang.
End bending can be built into the cropping or blanking dies or a simply jig in a fly press to put the bend into a fixed position.

Luke H 15-04-19 10:55 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neibelungen (Post 475507)
From a manufacturing perspective, it's unlikely that the finished stock for sliders is extruded.
Rather, the raw square or round bar stock is initially extruded (pushed under extreme presure of about 250 to 1000 tons while in a red hot state through a conforming die).
It would then be anealed and set through either a rolling mill to dimension it (or flatten if round stock) before being sent through a draw plate if a precise profile or dimensional shape was required.

Typically complex 3d shapes like H beams or 'L' section are extruded directly to finished shape, the rest would be produced as round or rectangular bar which would be processes in a far less demanding (force and temperature) method.
Rolling mills can work with long straight length or continious coil, and apart from annealing, don't require complex hydraulic forces as the mechanical force is basically compressive screw pressure and the rolling action provides the mechanical power to move the object through.
Draw benches can be hand or mechanical power and are graduated down to size reducing the force required to relatively small steps.
final stock material would be in long strips or coils and these would then pass through a cropping machine (usually onsite or subcontracted) to produce end profiles (round on one side and flat on the other side of the blanking die) on half of each part. As it progresses, the flat finishes the previous piece and the round crops the start of the next.

Blanking would require much more force and leave a rim and a lot more waste material, but could work with wider stock, cropping them horizontally across a strip, either individually or as a gang.
End bending can be built into the cropping or blanking dies or a simply jig in a fly press to put the bend into a fixed position.

Fascinating as always, thank you Neibelungen.

Can I ask, do you know what process is used to make AA sliders as they’re often found with irregular tips similar to ‘extruded’ sliders?

Thanks,

Luke

Neibelungen 15-04-19 05:11 PM

Aluminium, being rather soft and ductile isn't the best material for making sliders, so it's likely to be cut with a rounded end from rod or thicker bar stock and then rolled or pressed into the slider form to give it a lot more stress deformation stiffness.
It's much easier to extrude because of the low melting point, but it would still be an expensive over-engineered process for a basic shape.

magpie 15-04-19 07:05 PM

The material the sliders were made from was called flat rolled bar brass & iron when i started work, i don't think it was until the mid 90's we started to get all true sided quality bar and angle from Germany ?that we all take for granted these days.


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:19 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.