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-   -   Vintage Light Infantry Badge? (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46592)

Cofty 01-06-15 07:37 AM

Vintage Light Infantry Badge?
 
Hi, I am hoping somebody might be able to help ID this badge for me.

I found it while metal detecting in North Northumberland. I came across one image of a very similar badge that was found in America.

So far all I have been able to discover through an image search is that the bugle normally belongs to a light infantry regiment. This one appears to be much simpler than the ones I can find online which makes me wonder if it is quite early.

Any help with identifying the regiment and age would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/u...psgsyialma.jpg

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/u...psvlcistrp.jpg

Just 01-06-15 03:50 PM

Hello
when I see the lugs, probably ammo (cartridges) leather box badge ??
cordially
Didier

Jeff Mc William 01-06-15 07:33 PM

Hi Cofty
Congratulations on a very interesting "find".
I tend to agree with Didier on this one, ie that it is a Lt.Inf cartridge box badge, and yes, it has a definite 18th Centy "look" about it. Is it brass ? Regards Jeff

Cofty 01-06-15 10:03 PM

Thanks to you both.

That is really useful, I was wondering why it had 3 tags and thought it looked a bit big for a cap badge.

I think it is brass or some similar copper alloy. It came out the ground in very good condition with a nice greenish patina.

Is there any way to ID a specific regiment or would it be generic to Light Infantry?

The field I found it in has also given up lots of 18th Century coins and artefacts. I found it just a few yards from my house so it's nice to add a little bit to local history.

I'm surprised to hear that guns in that period had cartridges. I must do some research. I have found lots of lead musket balls in the same area.

Many thanks for the information. Bill

REMEVMBEA1 02-06-15 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cofty (Post 311529)
Thanks to you both.

That is really useful, I was wondering why it had 3 tags and thought it looked a bit big for a cap badge.

I think it is brass or some similar copper alloy. It came out the ground in very good condition with a nice greenish patina.

Is there any way to ID a specific regiment or would it be generic to Light Infantry?

The field I found it in has also given up lots of 18th Century coins and artefacts. I found it just a few yards from my house so it's nice to add a little bit to local history.

I'm surprised to hear that guns in that period had cartridges. I must do some research. I have found lots of lead musket balls in the same area.

Many thanks for the information. Bill


Just wondering , would the light companies of all regiments have had a bugle horn somewhere in their dress.

Cribyn 02-06-15 10:53 AM

Hello Crofty

'Cartridge' in this context does not mean the modern metallic cased round of ammunition but a paper wrapped musket ball and measured charge of gunpowder.

In essence the cartridge was ripped open and the powder poured down the barrel, followed by the musket ball and the paper was forced home and used as wadding to keep the powder and ball in place (probably an overly-simplified explanation!).

The thick paper used was called cartridge paper, a term which still exists for a particular grade of paper today.

Regards
Roger

davidwyke 02-06-15 12:24 PM

Hi Cofty

Certainly an interesting find but, personally, I think it would be virtually impossible to ID a particular regiment from the badge itself. It could be a Light Infantry Regt or, as mentioned above, the Light Company of any other infantry regt. It could also be from a Militia Regt or early Volunteers.

You would probably have more luck trying to find out what military units were active in the area around the correct time period. It sounds like the field may have been used for shooting practice or as a camp site.

David

PS.... it's most likely Light Infantry but could it also relate to Rifles??

mule-73k 02-06-15 02:09 PM

Looking at the measurement of the badge 6"x5" could it not more likely be off a helmet plate? Those proportions remind me of something off the likes of a Bell Top Shako.

Perhaps looking at the location the Durham's might be a contender?

Dave

davidwyke 02-06-15 02:47 PM

Hi Dave

Not sure about DLI. The 68th Foot were equipped and trained as LI in 1808 and left for Europe the following year. They were hardly ever in England over the next 50+ years, only c. 1844-1846 and they could have been stationed anywhere. (They were stationed in Scotland & Ireland during that period but not England as far as I know).

David

Neibelungen 02-06-15 02:47 PM

It's most probably a bugle badge for the 1812 pattern caps (commonly called a belgic shako, though incorrectly).
In 1813 a GO was issued ordering light infantry and light company units to use brass bugle plates in place of the universal plate recently introduced.

A number of identical badges to these have been discovered in Canada, France, Belgium and the Pyrenees dating to around this period.

Although it shares similarity in fixtures to early cartridge box plates, these had been long discontinued in use on them by this date , apart from the RA and Foot Guards, who still retained them.

Cofty 02-06-15 04:43 PM

Thanks everybody, lots of good information there.

Sorry about the confusion but the measurements in the photographs are in centimeters. It's 60mm high and 52 mm wide (approx. 2 1/2 inches x 2 inches)

I came across the picture below when following internet leads this morning. It is similar in style. I see the regiment number is a separate badge below the bugle. The picture was titled "33rd Belgic".

Excuse my ignorance but what is the difference between the Light Infantry and The Rifles?

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps0jdruiyf.jpg

davidwyke 02-06-15 05:06 PM

Hi Cofty

If you mean the badge, the reason I suggested Rifles as a possibility is that many Rifle units (regular and volunteers) also traditionally used the strung bugle horn device.

David

Neibelungen 03-06-15 12:15 PM

The two rifles regiments (60th and 95th) were multi-battalion troops more intensively trained to operate in individual company groups in light infantry/skirmish roles. Though many of the light infantry regiments were employed in this way at times, they tended to operate more as a formed whole battalion on the battlefield role and were employed more as forward advanced units on the march.

The main difference was the 95th and 60th were issued with the Baker Rifle rather than a smooth bore musket, though records show some were also issued to companies in some of the light regiments too.

The 95th fielded up to 3 battalions in later campaigns where most regiments only fielded a single battalion, with the second as a home depot/training unit. Though 2nd battalions were often employed in the field, often when a 3rd battalion was raised to remain at home as depot unit.
2 or 3 weak battalions would often be fielded as a single composite battalion on some campaigns at times.

The Rifles were still employed as an organised battalion on occasion and utilised the same drill and formation as regular units, but were more commonly broken down into detatched companies than other units would be, especially where difficult terrain would prevent more cohesive deployment and use of regular formations.


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