Coldstream Guards face the axe!
 

This is a rather shameful thing for the British government to do.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/260752

Mick

That is one of the worst pieces of news I've read in years. The government may as well start burning Union Flags. Absolute thoughtlessness and disgraceful. This country will have no tradition or identity at all soon.

Regards,

Phil

A sad day!
 

This is decidedly not good news. Are we to have yet another page from our military history wiped out and lost forever? Given the outcry that this is sure to raise though could it possibly be a smoke screen whereby the Coldstream Guards are given a last minute reprieve at the expense of another of our prestigious regiments. Difficult choices it seems are being made and wherever the axe falls it is bound to be painful.

There have been discussions on this theme recently on the forum and arguments made for and against the cuts. I don't wish to get into the politics of the matter as we all have our personal opinions and affiliations but it seems to me that our armed forces are once again bearing the brunt of this savagery from an ungrateful nation, or its governors at least and this gesture politics backed although with regret by our monarchy doesn't really have a great deal of impact on the core problems that the country faces.

We run the very real risk in the future of losing the will of young men to sign up and fight for our country in time of need due to this and other examples of the way in which we treat our armed forces. What covenant?

A sad day!

Well said Ry

Axe the Coldstreams!
 

Why is anyone suprised at the Coldstreams being axed?
In Iraq the Black Watch were tasked to leave Basra, Travel to Bagdad, carry out tasks the Yanks couldn't do. This resulted in heavy loss of life.
What was their reward?
As soon as they returned to U.K. they were effectively disbanded, after 125 years, only remembered now as 3rd battalion of The Royal Regiment of Scotland.
Nothing is sacred when the government is in a saving mood.
Next we will see all special forces cut out,
We don't need them after all, the T.A. will do the job cheaper.

Regards,
Eddie

I too would hate to see a Regiment of such signifance as this go, but is this speculation, well founded concern, or just fear? I can see why someone would say 2 English 1 Scots, 1 Irish & 1 Welsh means that if we have to cut lets get rid of one of the English ones. I doubt any of us really know. I can see another purely speculative approach being to get rid of line before guards.

Let's wait and see, but I have thought again about selling my Royal Dragoon Guards collection (only missing Officers pouch badge and mess dress collars), MBTs are expensive...

Thats a good point, I still haven't sold my spare Coldstream Guards Cap Badge. May take it off the list.

There comes a time during defence cuts when manpower is targeted. During that process it is inevitable that named regiments will feature in both speculation and reality. Partisan loyalties will emerge, as they have here, to argue that a named regiment should not be 'axed' but how else do you cut manpower without naming regiments ? I remember the last big PR exercise mounted to save the Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders. They were axed but no-one can say that they are forgotten. A regiment may be 'axed' but it will never die. The reforms of 1922 saw the loss of many highly acclaimed regiments from the British army and subsequent reforms did the same. Those regiments still exist in the minds and souls of those who served in them and those who took the trouble to learn about their history and the contribution they made - as named regiments - to the history of Britain and the world. If the Coldstream Guards - or any other named regiment - are axed in the current round of reforms then they will be a victim of progress. We will shout and scream but the result will be the same. We must cut defence spending at this time of recession.

Just think of all those great county Regiments that have gone forever. The Coldstream Guards are possibly one of the most high profile Regiments to come under this threat for a while. If I remember right the Paras also came under threat a while back. My old Regiment the Royal Green Jackets are now the Rifles... In some respect lucky to have kept a lot of their identity as a Rifle Regiment... But you could argue rightly that the County regiments from Devon, Dorest, Wilts and Gloucester can not say the same now they are part of the Rifles.

A terrible shame.... But also what worries me is that we are sending our armed forces out all the time to fight / Police in various areas around the world. Sounds like the Army is near to breaking point anyway with out more cuts.
The powers that are in Charge seem to be hell bent in using our young Men and Women at the drop of a hat in these conflicts. Labour and Tories just as much to blame as each other. My personal view is that we are at the moment throwing lives away in conflicts which in the end will prove to be pointless...To send people out knowing that they could be out of work shortly and facing life back in Civvy street is almost an act of Treason and completely disrespectfull to these brave people.

We may when needs cuts in the defence budget... But not in this period of our history and not with the comintments made buy our politicial leaders... I use the term leaders in that last sentance with my tounge firmly in my cheek !!!! :mad:

The Colonel who first founded our (Leicestershire) Yeomanry in 1774 was a Coldstream Guard, Col William Skeffington.

Coldstream is in Scotland ! David

Very good david, there is no actual connection though, lol.

Phil

Phil,

I believe the Regiment originated in Coldstream, circa mid-1600s.

Happy to stand corrected on this though :).

PJ

As crazy as this sounds coming from an Irish Guards collector and a Grandson of a Mick, I would rather see the Irish Guards go. Or at least form a composite Regiment with another Guards Regiment (Works for the Blues & Royals). Only because it is no longer able to maintain its Irish identity. I've heard figures of only around 25% Irish born. In my Granda's time it was more like 90%.

Coldstream Guards face the axe
 

Surely, if we want an efficient fighting force it is best to axe the pomp and ceremony (and expense of ceremonial uniforms etc) of a Guards Bn and keep a fighting unit that will be useful in combat!

Stephen.

Thats a good stir ........ I recommend it is ignored for the drivel it is.

I made my comment in a previous thread on Army cut backs in general. Great Britain has to come to terms with the fact we can't police the world as we once did. I'm tired of seeing the Brit's run in first and as they say sacrifice British blood and treasure for the gains of others. I don't see the German's, French, and the rest of Europe lining up behind in a hurry. Yet they all seem to benefit from the efforts of the American's and British forces, with little to no cost. I mean there commitment to global security is near zero as other than the British contingent in the Libyan fiasco, they ran out of ordnance in as little as four week's. Going cap in hand to the US to supply them ASAP.

The simple fact is, without the Afgan and Iraq war these cut back's may not have been necessary, as the budget would not have been burnt on what for the Brit's is the 5th tour of duty in that region since the early 19th century. And on all occasions pointless expenditures in "Blood and Treasure".

Talking to an active member of Her Majesties Forces recently, he told me that the Afgan and Iraq war's will go down as another glorious defeat.

A healthy economy also helps to maintain an army too. I mean the German's have the most healthiest economy and they only have 76,000 in uniform. Why should we have an army equivalent in size, yet an economy 30% smaller. Maybe we should send them all an invoice for our services policing the world.....:cool:

The town signs in Coldstream include 'home of the regiment' and display the breast badge of the Order of the Garter. However, like so many regiments, I doubt many recruits actually come from the town or its surrounding area. But Coldstream is still in Scotland so 1 English, 1 Irish, 1 Welsh and 2 Scots ! No doubt each of the 5 regiments is praying 'not me' at this time of cut backs. David

I stand corrected.

Phil

Hi Dave

Coldstream (Scottish Gaelic: An t-Alltan Fuar) is a small town in the Borders district of Scotland. It lies on the north bank of the River Tweed in Berwickshire, while Northumberland in England lies to the south bank,

peter

Well Badjez,
Pomp and ceremony eh.............................Yes i suppose the Guards are good at this, raking in loads of money from tourists for our government. As for efficient front line soldiers the Guards well we used to have our own SAS sqn`s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All too true, well said that man!

Regards

Phil

Peter - Many thanks for the geography lesson. Not an area I know well, of course. David

Stephen,

I can think of a few more sacred cows we could axe, Kings Tp RHA and Household Cavalry Mounted Band spring to mind. Do we really need 5000 odd parachute trained personnel? What is their purpose in this modern time? I seem to remember last time they were used in numbers by parachute, was against the enemy was Suez. I suppose I will create more heat than light with my remarks but every one is entitled to their opinion and I may well be alone.:)

MW.

I agree MW, if we keep for sentimental or historic value, we'd still have Pikemen.

Simon.

Simon, we do at the Tower of London. lol.

Phil

Yeah we do, but that's to keep the American's happy when they pop over...:D

And there's only 73 of them, would be pricey in battalion size......all those nice uniforms they have......:rolleyes:

Simon

I think we still do, dont we in the Honourable Artillery Company? Maybe thats the answer! to keep our regular army for active service overseas and use our territorial army to undertake home defence, security, admin and ceremonial duties and keep old regiments alive! we already have a large UK only, full time home service force in the form of the Military Provost Guard Service, so why not expand the idea? Just a thought!

No one's really answered my question why we have a larger army then Germany, who's economy is 30% larger. Even parity with them is economic suicide in some respects. If you can't afford it, you can;'t have it.; this works all over the place -look at the US right now. Wanting all the goodies, but everyone think's their next door neighbor should pay for it, and not them. I mean if you ant to keep the free National Health, something has to be cut to keep it.

Simon.

Well this has gone rather off topic but I suspect there are many reasons why we have a larger army than germany, some could be that until renunification they were restricted to an army with no overseas commitment, they have large military prescence's of british and american troops and no real concerns about home defence. They also have no former empire or commonwealth (as we took it all off them!) to whom they have any defence treaty's with! Military service, largely due to national service (which I beleive has ended now?) was always unpopular amongst germans and also the fact that germany is far more self sufficient in raw materials and has little need to secure imports from nations it needs to remain western friendly! Just a few reasons, I'm sure there are many more!

Regards Tony

I don't think it's off topic at all Tony, it in my opinion put's into perspective the cut's in the military; but nah, sorry, Germany isn't self sufficient in raw materials as you think. In fact the UK had in the form of oil, coal, natural gas etc etc; more or equal. In the gas and oil 100% more. Germany rely's now on the ex Soviet Union for pretty much all of it' natural gas and oil. Hence the reason why they don't want to get involved in Iraq, they don't need that oil. Don't know of any defense treaty obligations either with Iraq or in Afghanistan for the Brit's.
On the raw materials for Britain, if we actually made anything I agree we need those imports. But the day's are long gone for the need of raw cotton, iron ore, timber, rubber, etc etc. They are all going to China as that's where it's all made. When manufacturing come's back, you can go buy a bigger army.
Don't get me wrong, it is very upsetting with the setting of the sun on the Empire, and you couldn't get more British than myself and spend many hours defending the UK all over the US since being here for 15 years. But I do get tired of us as always fighting our buddies battles in Europe for these precious raw materials. It is sad to see those regiments with such long histories go, but let others get their regiments some battle honors; our's have enough.

When the Brit's come to terms with the diminishing presence in the world and go back to making money as we did at the beginning of the Empire with innovation (when our standing armies were always the smallest), will be our best avenue to go.

No offense is meant, and just my opinion.

Regards
Simon.

I suppose it could be worse, they may have considered looking to reduce the Royal Anglian's:)

I too stand corrected, thank you David.

Ravens next
 

I reckon the ravens at H.M.Tower of London will be next.

Just think of all that expensive bird food they consume and all they do is crap all over the place.

I'm sure some fat B****** in the city across the road from the "Tower" can find a pot to put them in........or are all the pots full already ?

Have been following this discussion with interest, and have to agree with Simon wholeheartedly. It's a question of sad reality, and economics

We spend in GDP terms more than everyone except America, Russia, Saudi and are equal with South Korea. Something has to give. Whether we like it or not, we are minuscule in the scheme of things, but remain the number 3 spender in the world!

What the Americans spend is simply mind boggling. 700 billion last year, and nearly 5% of GDP. They just about spend more than the top 20 countries combined, including China. That's another story...... but let them police the world if they are happy with doing so.

Why don't we concentrate on making weapons instead:D Just my opinion.
Cheers, Neil

Thanks Neil. I'll end my post's on this reduction in forces and our presence in the world by asking to view the video shown. I think it sum's up somewhat the waste of not just the treasure, but the blood that has throughout our long and glorious history accompanied it in many a foreign field. At last count the war graves commission care for 1,599,630 graves of British and Commonwealth Service men and women.

I think it say's it all. It's time to stay home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtl5k...&feature=email

Regards
Simon

By God Simon, that particular clip should be compulsory viewing for all the fiddling, meddling, mendacious politicians who still can't comprehend that loyalty must flow both ways.

Ritchie.

A stirring video ! At the end of the day, the issue isn't one of governments, regiments, generals or theatres of war - it is about the price paid by individuals in the service of their country. I for one am proud of being a citizen of a country that refuses to forget those who lost and continue to lose their lives in military conflicts, irrespective of the regiment/corps in which they served. Regiments come and go but the memory of these people lives for ever. Thank you for posting the video. David

Just my tuppence worth.

Firstly The descendants of Monks Regiment of Coldstream Foot Guards are not English. Coldstream is in Scotland. Where the old HQ is and the Coldstreamer's come every year to take part in the Coldstream Civic Week / Riding of the boundries and Flodden Memorial ceremony.

Oh and the town is full of ex coldstreamer's and the Area is still a recruiting area. With a large contingent of Locals in the ranks.

It would still mean one of the 2 Scottish Guards being disbanded, but the Scots Guards are younger, they should go.

Secondly the Royal Scots where disbanded without issue. That was the oldest Regiment in the Army. I don't think the Condem pact gives a hoot for history.