42nd
 

Officers/SNCOs Victorian glengarry badge.
Cast silver plated back star, fire gilt overlay with separate silver numerals.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pscnge3plk.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pslqslv5ar.jpg

Stunning!!!

I second that Ron...stunning...!

A really lovely example Ron. Thanks for sharing. Regards Jeff

42nd Officers Victorian glengarry badge.
Unmarked silver back star mounted with a fire gilt overlay (sun bleached). Conjoined silver numerals mounted to the centre. Pleasing blue tarnish to the silver.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pszrtuenvd.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pscxxkukzb.jpg

Ron
Another excellent piece. I notice the "ET" spelling, the different construction, and different QVC this time. How many variations on this theme were there ? Regards Jeff

Hi Jeff, I guess as many versions as there are makers. Will post another version tomorrow.
Ron.

This officers example by Anderson, cast silver plated star gilt overlay somewhat rubbed with a pinched style of crown. Separate silver numerals to the center.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psza1odqek.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psnqqwnq5s.jpg

The snco's version in gm and white metal.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psw1uh9p2m.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pszxgohgf3.jpg

42nd kilmarnock numerals excavated condition unusual to find with intact lugs.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psqybzapgc.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps2dpq6wqm.jpg

Snco's 1902-37 glengarry badge.
Die-struck silver plated back star with brazed on scrolls. Separate silver numerals.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps0yb5jyth.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pstyuw0plm.jpg

SNCO's glengarry badge attributed to Pipe Major Thomas Clark.
Silver plated die-struck back star, separate silver numerals.
His kirby grip replacement cotter pin holds the overlay tight even though only passing through the top lug. High degree of polish wear.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psplx628bq.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pstcsoknng.jpg

Another SNCOs glengarry badge all die-struck.
Gilt covered with heavy lacquer staining silver numerals to the centre.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps9x65kcev.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pseb3xvuri.jpg

Ron as always great badges. The lacquer staining; do you think that was added by a collector fairly recently (post WWII) or back in time, or in-service? Seen a few badges that have been lacquered.

Bryan

Hi Bryan, I think it is old shellac lacquer that has browned with age impossible to say when it was applied.
Ron.

Thanks Ron, just curious if this was a common practice.

Thanks

Bryan

SNCOs badge die-struck in a thin gauge material this necessitated a heavy guage backing plate to be fixed to the reverse. The lugs are brazed through the plate preventing its removal.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psdxmflybb.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psta14wmq6.jpg

Sgts bonnet badge, so well polished the ribs have been removed.
Plaque came with the badge. Three copper lugs to the reverse.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps583f8a46.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psfyvvtqac.jpg

Very fine silver plate and gilt SNCOs example by Andersons 1902-36.
Swallowtail scrolls extending beyond the back star.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps8tyafk5z.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psohgtahxo.jpg

Ron, another great badge. I'm sure another stupid question, but what makes it a SNCO badge rather than an officer's? Is it the fact that it is plate rather than solid silver and are the numerals plate as well?
Bryan

Oops, forgot to ask. It would have been a relatively expensive badge to buy even in plate I would imagine. Do you know if SNCOs bought them private purchase? Would they be given a non-silver badge at public expense?

Bryan

Bryan, in this particular case it is easy at this time officers did not wear 42 numerals but had St. Andrew at the badge centre.
However with the 2nd Bn it is more difficult especially in the Victorian era, I will be posting examples on that thread soon. The earlier the badge is and the better quality the more likely it is to be private purchase.
Ron.

Hi Ron,

Thanks again for sharing your 'world class' collection, truly outstanding and a credit to your ongoing diligence.

That last 42nd you posted with the long scrolls is really wonderful. A real joy to see these Ron - thank You.

Cheers, Roy.

P.s. now where is my 'one' example..:eek:

watching your posts with great envy

I have the following badge...apparently came via a bosleys auction but not by me

can you give some commentary

Attachment 145065

Hi Wayne, could you post a pic of the reverse? Do you know which Bosleys sale it came from?
I can make a few observations, the 'N' from impune has a broken top indicating this overlay was struck/cast from an old die!
The pinched style crown and IT spelling would suggest a 42nd officers badge circa 1870, yet it has a St. Andrews center?
The left hand arm of the star has an unsightly blob of solder?
There is no patination on the badge?
Ron.

SNCOs 1937-52 pattern.
Solid backstar stamped silver with an Andersons name plate, lugs are also silver. Bright gilt overlay with silver numerals. Unusual to find a badge of this quality at this late date. It has been suggested to me that it was a recruiters badge?
For its over the mountains, and over the main,
Through Gibralter tae France and tae Spain
With a feather tae your bunnet and a kilt abune your knee,
Enlist my bonnie laddie, and come awa wi me.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps7ztfjhew.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psdvmyl4tb.jpg

Hi Ron, your last post badge piqued my curiosity about a badge like that's use. I can see why it would be a recruiters badge. During actual service would a SNCO wear a badge like that in battle or generally was the hackle used? Would it have been a "home use" badge only? Also did the 1st Btn 42nd tradition carry on through this period and so this badge would still be associated with the 1st Btn?

Bryan

Bryan, the 42nd numeral badges were only worn by the 1st Bn.
The glengarry was not worn on active service during WW2 but that does not mean that some SNCOs did not retain them.
It is possible that the badge was used at the depot after the loss of the 1st Bn at St.Valery in 1940 it took two years to reform the Bn to be sent to Egypt in June 42.
This next badge which is an economy style version of the previous badge in white metal and a gm overlay was probably the last 42 badge to be issued in 1942.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...pshj28craw.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps2ot1dhuc.jpg

Many thanks Ron, as usual you know the answer. Your last sentence: are you saying that was the last issue date of a 42 badge to the regiment ever?

Bryan

Bryan, I have not yet seen another pattern of the 36-52 badge but that does not mean there is not one out there! There are no known examples of a QC badge.
Ron.

Perfect answer Ron

Thanks

Whilst talking about the SNCO badge another point I was curious about was the use of the bi-metal badge across all the battalions from the creation of the Territorial Force in 1908. The 1st Btn had the "42" and the 2nd the "Jimmy" but did the other battalions not follow in the tradition of using a bi-metal badge for SNCOs? I have seen, or at least purported to be, bi-metal BW style Cyclist SNCO badges. However, I have seen very few "Jimmy" type bi-metal badges (this is the badge you would think the other battalions would use) other than those that are clearly officer. Of course probably the majority of "42" bi-metals are pre-TF (QVC) so I may be killing my argument.
As an aside would there have been more officers than SNCOs in the regiment anyway? And if they were private purchase only (?) would SNCOs, especially in wartime when the glengarry was not worn, have had the funds, or inclination, to buy one, hence their rarity?
Sorry, one more point, would recruiters (generally SNCOs), have tended to come from the regular battalions even in the war years, so they as long serving, tradition based soldiers would part with cash to have a prestigious badge that they could use on a daily basis?
Sorry, a lot of points in one post. But in conclusion is there any evidence to support the use of a bi-metal SNCO badge in the non-regular BW battalions?

Bryan

Thought I had better clarify my choice of words about the glengarry not worn in wartime., which is of course wrong. What I meant to say is that on active service the BW badge may not have been worn all the time in WW1 (hackle, etc) and Ron has mentioned WW11.

Bryan

Bryan, the glengarry was worn on parades and walking out.
I believe that TF Bns and the service Bns wore bi-metal SNCO badges with St. Andrew. You have to remember that many Sgts in these battalions were ex regulars especially the Sgt instructors.
Ron.

Thanks Ron, can always rely on you to know the answers. Just need to find a good example.

Thanks

Bryan

Bryan, photo of T/6/RH Sgt wearing bi-metal badge.
Ron.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps73d5aeeb.jpg

Great photo Ron. Just to clarify in my own mind! In your other current thread you show a 2nd Btn SNCO badge, voided with the green insert. Did this voided SNCO badge carry on through to WW1 and end in WW2 like the "42"? And the TF and Service Btn's exclusively used an un-voided bi-metal badge? I realise I might be asking for your opinion rather than a known fact.

Thanks for your patience Ron!

Bryan

Bryan, the 2nd Bn voided badges carried on in a KC version up untill WW1, I have two examples to post later. I have not seen photographic evidence of TF or service use.
Ron.

Ladies ball gown waist belt clasp, 1st Bn India 1890s.
Gilt brass buckle floriate design pierced and chased, mounted with four 42nd buttons by Jennens & Co London with POW feathers. Buttons have been pressed down to a flatter profile. The whole buckle is laquered the area around the numerals now toning brown.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psjoyvfnds.jpg
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...psps1s41dg.jpg