I'm trying to work out whether the seller would have to be complicit in the bizarre bidding/retraction series of events...

Its like wierdly complex money laundering . . .

I think we will need wait for the endgame to try and understand what has happened here.

Originally it looked like a clumsy attempt at shill bidding but since then the retractions, re-bids, new high bids with quick or immediate retractions all paint a very unclear and murky picture.

The seemingly endless plethora of new bidders apparently willing to place very large bids even with the backdrop of retractions is very unusual and makes it difficult to work out what is going on.

Not a bad shout! Alternatively Russia warming up for its cyber warfare on Ukrainian eBay.

Or someone is laughing at our running commentary. Keeps me out of the pub . . .

A number of people are no doubt being amused by all this and the attention it is getting !

P.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that. Absolute lunacy. A couple of crafty moths come along and 10 grand goes down the drain. :D

Well, it has been entertaining. Can't believe eBay hasn't stepped in, but they're probably hoping for a nice big fee if it sells high!

Two old saying come to mind

"There's one born every minute" PT Barnum

"A fool and his money are soon parted" Thomas Tusser

Terry

I agree, this is absurd. Smacks of Third Reich collecting lunacy. I do not collect SF material. I can neither afford it, nor do I care for their aesthetics and often over hyped history.

CB

Has anyone opened a book on this yet? Final selling price? If the buyer will actually pay?

With less than 12 hours to go, It'll be hard now for anyone to try and retract bids...

Enjoying this thread immensely, and looking forward to seeing the final tally on the auction. Its been fascinating!

This is more addictive than Bolivian marching powder (allegedly).

Almost makes me brave enough to stop polishing the buttons on my beige cardigan and risk a bid myself.
Then again, maybe not.

So £7,950 then...

Insanity.

I'm sure that ebay and paypal are thrilled with the results.

Thing is I want the whole backstory now. The bidders, the retractions, who bought it, the sellers reaction. A Netflix style documentary on it. I've thoroughly enjoyed the drama.

The item sold for £7950. Not to me unfortunately. A very desirable item for a specialist Commando collector (concentrating on WW2) like me. I hope the new owner appreciates it fully. The eBay description is not entirely accurate - but it obviously did not put the highest bidder off.
Mike

Mike,

Just for the sake of comprehending what happened here:

Were you surprised at the price it fetched?

What was inaccurate about the description?

Regards, Richard.

Hello Richard
To be honest - the price was surprising, but not inconceivable on reflection.
Commando items often command a premium, and we do not know who is entering the market. That said, you may well expect attribution at that price. I imagine it is close to a world record price for a title - if the deal is honoured. I was certainly thrown by the bidding strategy and wondered what was going on - the retracted bids show £10,000 was placed on the item at one stage - which would 'certainly be stretching it a bit'. Was this clever bidding? - it certainly threw me.
The correct description is 'No.3 Commando, 2 Troop' without the extra flannel re HQ.
I hope this is helpful.
Mike

Thank you Mike. Very helpful and I appreciate your feedback. I'm glad I don't have 'the itch' to collect such items, I simply couldn't afford it :eek:

I wonder if Benedict Cumberbatch is free? Or Bradley Cooper as he seems to be in everything!:D

I just wish I had been the seller!!!!

Terry

Bradley Cooper aka the future ex Mr Tigerlily :)

I'd love to know how the seller is doing, they must be completely knocked sideways.

A couple of simple questions from a simple bloke. How do you authenticate something like the item in this thread?. How can you ever know for sure that it is what it purports to be?. Anyone with a knack for replicating this kind of item could make these things look authentic by using the correct materials and by simulating the ageing process. Showing it as part of a display on an old curtain doesn't prove anything at all. It's all a bit of a joke to me.

Regrettably, that can/could be said for a great many of the items forum members collect!!

Dave.

Yes Dave, very true, but 8 grand for a bit of old rag of unproven provenance is just pure comedy.

The clue is to know your subject - research, research, more research, handling items, talking to veterans etc etc ... yes after 60 years at it (my twin brother and I started collecting young, with good guidance) I am still learning and dismayed at the increasingly forensic approach that has to be adopted - caution is very wise, when dealing with high end items - above all, it is most important to enjoy the hobby ...

Couldn’t agree more , it’s a hobby and should be enjoyed as such ,otherwise ( it seems to me ) there is little point in collecting anything .

( as many people (including the famous Reg Harvey ) have said in the past we are merely the temporary custodians of our collections )

P.

Episodes like this make me a little sad, and apprehensive for the hobby.

Apprehensive because there is little doubt that for certain types of items like these, and with margins like that, the fakery will be taken to the next level and beyond. If works of art can hang on internationally renowned gallery walls and still prompt debate as to authenticity and, perhaps, ultimately be shown to be fakes then all the diligence, expertise knowhow, experience and 'feel' that dedicated collectors - like Mike above and many more - will be challenged as never before. Potentially everything is fakable with extreme diligence, and with these types of margins, there's no doubt it will be applied, resulting in items that will forever have a question mark over them.

Sad because collecting areas within the hobby are becoming inaccessible for the person of modest means.

Jon

Come on folks. Don’t go away yet……………….. should we not wait for safe delivery yet? It also might be interesting to read the seller/buyer feedback comments. Just musing, that’s all. Good luck to the successful bidder. D.J.

At the end of the day, the buyer might have waited 20 years for this badge to finally fill that gap in his collection, and so willing to pay for it. But its true, if you can make it you can fake it - be it passports or military insignia.

But as has been said, research is the key. No one is infallible but with knowledge you can cut out 99.99% of suspect items. Always go on the item not the back story, and be happy with something before paying, even if it means asking for others advice. I often get asked for my opinions from a few friends, and have also had one or two major sellers and auction houses ask for my help in the past.

I knew of an American in the last few years who threw absolutely stupid sums of money at badges, just to win them, often three or four times the value, and 18 months later he has sold the Lot. Unfortunately the dealer who bought them had to shell out a pile to acquire them. But I recall once he bought an aircrew wing from me, at only about £20.00, but having received it mailed me a few weeks later to ask for his money back as he had been told it was a repro. I said 'Sure, but that's odd because it came from the such and such collection.' Oh, in that case I'll keep it then' he replied. Someone willing to throw cash around when he clearly didn't know his subject...

Jon

I completely agree and that is why 3rd Reich collecting and increasingly British SF collecting is in state that it is. I have no interest in any of it and get far more enjoyment researching the mundanity of Cadet Corps and OTCs. there are cadet badges of which I have seen scare cadet badge where only one or 2 examples have come up for sale in over 20 years but even those fortunately are modestly priced.

Alan

Absolutely Alan, the direct parallel is with Third Reich collecting, which went wonky about 20 years ago. I know several venerable collectors in that field who gave up on it some years ago because the faking on some sectors became so good, and these are guys who put a hell of a lot of diligence into their hobby - obsessives in fact.

Padre - yes, research is the key, of course. However the point I'm making is that the 99.99% figure you cite will drop dramatically if this persists, leaving the most experienced collectors unsure. Mike has 60 years in the hobby, I have 40 and I am sure you have very many yourself, but this sort of thing will change the hobby for ever in my opinion as the standard of fakery will leave even most diligent and experienced collectors with doubt in their mind.

So, in a nutshell, in spite of the collecting scene being riddled with fakers, story tellers, liars, con merchants, crooks, spivs, shysters, crap merchants and general low-life scumbags everything is hunky-dory !!!. Mmmmmm!!!.:D

The future?
 

Just watch out for one of these appearing in a provincial auction house with a lot of WWII era cloth badges.

Need I say more . . !

Rob

The little elves will be beavering away already. £££££ mmmmm!!.

ROB, your post at #114, echos mine at post #38! Regards, D.J.

I love how positive every one is!!!

Have to say I agree with Mike and Padre, knowledge through research is the key. Never mind a £7.9k patch if it wasn’t for this forum I’m sure most would all have dozens or hundred of repros in our collections of a reasonably equatable value.

Yes new and in some cases better repros will come to pass but I don’t think the 99.9% statistic will change. Reason being the very nature of manufacturing will always lead to a difference of some kind. These difference may be drastic or small.

In either case in the mega pixel camera/high definition scanner and internet age with so much information sharing with experienced collectors, access to reference material and primary source research ‘new’ variants hitting the market invariably get spotted and flagged e.g. Gaunt plaque RNDs, Auxiliary HG enamel badges, int.militaria’s silver copies.

Like Alan I get as much pleasure out of a £20 WW1 eco as anything else, but, if the buyer of this patch is happy and it fills a long awaited gap then good luck to him or her.

I saw American airborne go through the roof when SPR came out, and then even more so when BoB was aired. Funny how a movie or series can inspire some collectors to jump into new areas, which raises the demand, which raises the prices. Then they lose interest or a different movie has come out and they sell off the previous lot which with a new supply now available, the market softens.

In closing I know a fellow who sold his house and moved into an apartment to get the money needed to buy a Blue Max from the family. Cannot fathom that!

I have never tried to get into high end items because I have never had the funds to do so. Give me a £3 patch or badge that fits in my collection, and I am as happy as if it were a £200 patch or badge.

I personally am quite happy with collecting in my area and have a want list that will probably take more time than I have to ever get them all. But it is fun, and is definitely hobby. I really like eh comment/statement made several times on the forum - "we are just the current custodians".

Terry

One of the most extraordinary fake stories I over heard, was a few years ago at War and Peace. A trader of 3rd Reich medals and uniform etc, was explaining to a punter how he had been on a buying trip in Poland. He was driving down a fairly rural road when he passed a gang of road workers repairing the road surface, gravel, hot tarmac, dirty, muddy, sweaty work - the whole nine yards. He screatched his car to a halt when he noticed that all the workers were wearing black wrap around Nazi armoured crew jackets, with various insignia. The jackets of course were filthy, 'worn' and covered in oil etc. He asked to examine one and found it was extraordinarily good workmanship, very realistic looking, but to his well experienced eye, copies. When he asked where they got them from, they explained that they were wearing them for a few weeks for a guy who basically dropped them a few crates of beer.

Hey presto, worn, rubbed, with the odd hole, genuine sweat marks, smelly etc. You genuinely couldn't make this stuff up!

Love the humour Ally!:D