24th (Denbigh Yeo) Btn RWF
 

Hi All

Finally tracked down a confirmed image of the 24th (DHY) Btn RWF ..... in Palestine :D

The chap on the far right is (345264) Sgt. Tom Penson.... he was later promoted to Lieutenant and died in France just before the end of the war. The group is some of his Company Sergeants.

Tom Penson joined the Denbighshire Hussars Yeomanry Reserve Regiment, 2nd Troop, D Squadron, at Wrexham on December 4, 1914, as a private, number 1075.

Note that one of the Sergeants has a POWFs above his chevrons and one of the others has a Fusil/Grenade...... I think the POWFs mean "Platoon Sergeant" and a continuity of the DHY NCO arm badge.

Sadly no caps to prove the cap badge.... I still think the Other Ranks wore the DHY Bronzed POWFs and the Officers the RWF.

Lt Tom Penson's Grave, 24th (DHY) Btn RWF = (RWF Cap Badge) - KIA at the battle of Epehy, September 18, 1918 with 25th RWF.

Pvt H Evans, , 24th (DHY) Btn RWF = (DHY Cap Badge)

* If you look at any Other Ranks grave for the RWF in "other" battalions they have the RWF cap badge on their grave.

Here is a DHY Sergeant just prior to 1914 with the POWFs NCO Arm badge in khaki... alongside the 24th (DHY) Btn RWF Sgts NCO Arm badge.

It actually looks more like the crown above chevrons as normally found in any infantry battalion during this period indicating a 'CQMS'. I think you'll also find that the numbers of yeoman transferred into these infantry battalions were small in comparison to those who were actually pure infantry, simply due to establishment levels. The grenade above the chevrons would indicate either a SGT 'bomber' or possibly L.T.M.B., but sometimes the ball of the grenade was painted to distiguish one from the other - red for 'bombers' - light blue for L.T.M.B.. I've seen them painted red, but never a light blue one, which would imply that the L.T.M.B. lads probably preferred the light blue cloth grenade to distinguish themselves from the remainder.

The 2/1st Northumberland Hussars were absorbed by the 9th Bn, N.F., becoming the 9th(Northumberland Hussars)Bn in 1917 and an interesting quote is in the Battalion History which states;-
"The dismounted Yeomanry were undergoing Infantry Training and their joyous advent was somewhat marred by the necessity of transferring some of the "old hands" to other units."

Implying that not all of the 2/1st N.H., were transferred to the 9th Bn. However the one identifying factor after amalgamation was that the former N.H. men were allowed to wear the N.H. collar badges, with N.F. cap badges.

Here is Sgt Tom Penson with Pith helmet..... the badge looks like the embroidered white on red fusil?

James Crinyion (from Birkenhead) was Regimental Sergeant Major (Acting Warrant Officer Class 1) with the Denbigh Hussars Yeomanry (632) and 24th (Denbighshire Yeomanry) Battalion, Royal Welsh Fusiliers (345170). Joined the Yeomanry in September 1914 at the age of 34. He had just done 12 years Short Service (Cavalry of the Line ) to Corps of Hussars of the Line (8th Hussars 4882, later 15th Hussars 4452) from 1900 to 1912 serving overseas in India.

The photo (undated) of James (sitting on second row far right of picture) with a group of other sergeants. They are wearing infantry uniform so its possible this is taken post 1/March/1917....... POWFs cap badge that looks as if the light is catching a "very worn" bronzed brass or its the bi-metal?

Graham

There is a chap with a small metal crown above his chevrons seated in the middle.

Here is the DHY NCO Arm badge pre 1912.... on Blues and on khaki.

Griff,

Re James Crinyion, don't you mean 1914 ?

Peter

Peter

It could be.... but they are wearing Infantry kit? Therefore its likely a later photo.

Yes - both cloth & metal crowns were permitted. It's just your other photo's show a more positive shaped POW plume. Photo three in your last post shows a nice picture of the "Sgt Instructor of Musketry" badge - "crown above crossed rifles" above his POW badge.

I am getting a better resolution photo from the owner hopefully....

* BTW.... I have an image of a Troop Corporal wearing it as well.

He joined in 1914 = DHY [Reg No 632] ...... and was also 24th (DHY) Btn = Post 1/3/1917 [Reg No 345170]

* James with his brother John. (Poor resolution...hopefully getting a better version)

Yes Griff,

But in post #6 you say 2014 ( that is where the quote comes from ) and presumably you meant to say 1914.

Peter

Ooooops :o ....senior moment :D