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-   -   White on red ‘WW1’ cloth shoulder titles- London Regiment (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68903)

Drew 22-07-18 08:48 PM

White on red ‘WW1’ cloth shoulder titles- London Regiment
 
In the Jan to March issue of The Formation Sign, there was a very interesting excerpt about a “22nd Queen’s” embroidered shoulder title with white writing on a red background. I was quite surprised by this as I had always presumed such white on red titles (for the London Regiment), were all WWII. There is a picture of the title and also a photograph of an officer in WWI uniform. I just wondered how many other London battalions may have used such colours. For example, there is the following ‘23rd London Regt.’ one on an auction site (which is also described as WWI).

How do we know for certain that they are of this point in time and not of the immediate inter-war period? I don’t mean to sound doubtful of the ascription, I am just very curious about this subject.
I am aware that many units had this colour scheme for cloth titles pre-1908, but I had just not seen it before with the London Regiment until after the Great War.

Best regards,

Chris

matti467 22-07-18 08:57 PM

The 22nd Queens white on red does sound familiar to me. I would also expect the font to be very unlike any WW2 and later shoulder titles.

Jelly Terror 23-07-18 02:49 AM

3 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drew (Post 449171)
In the Jan to March issue of The Formation Sign, there was a very interesting excerpt about a “22nd Queen’s” embroidered shoulder title with white writing on a red background. I was quite surprised by this as I had always presumed such white on red titles (for the London Regiment), were all WWII. There is a picture of the title and also a photograph of an officer in WWI uniform. I just wondered how many other London battalions may have used such colours. For example, there is the following ‘23rd London Regt.’ one on an auction site (which is also described as WWI).

How do we know for certain that they are of this point in time and not of the immediate inter-war period? I don’t mean to sound doubtful of the ascription, I am just very curious about this subject.
I am aware that many units had this colour scheme for cloth titles pre-1908, but I had just not seen it before with the London Regiment until after the Great War.

Best regards,

Chris

Chris,

After a little rummaging through my notes I can now offer the following for consideration in respect of the '23rd LONDON REGT.' shoulder title:

Attachment 191238Attachment 191239Attachment 191240

Regards,

JT

Drew 23-07-18 04:33 AM

Matti,
Thanks very much for that. You make a very good point about the font. I will have to have a closer look at that.

JT,
That’s great, thank you so much. WW1 and 1956 are obviously very different dates. It seems the auction house has got that one wrong. I also wondered about the red on Rifle green QVR one pictured. I dont believe I have ever seen that one in photographs of the great war period.

Many thanks,

Chris

Postwarden 25-07-18 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Difficult to be certain but the attached would appear to show the WWI red on green QVR title.

Jon

Drew 25-07-18 10:53 PM

Hello Jon,

Thank you so much for that. I think I saw this photo, or one like it, for sale recently. I wish now, that I had tried to purchase it.

Forgive me, but it is hard for me to distinguish it from the more familiar black on khaki one. Was the red on green one was an officers pattern?

Thank you very much for your post.

Regards,

Chris

54Bty 26-07-18 09:13 AM

The 23rd London Regt.
Catalogue number CB 7691, pattern number 17237, sealed 10th October 1956, introduced 11th January 1957, List of Change number 8042 April 1957.

Marc

Drew 26-07-18 01:46 PM

Fantastic! Thank you very much indeed, Marc.

Taking off from what Matti was saying, the font does look different to the 22nd London Rgt one that was in ‘The Formation Sign’.

Many thanks,

Chris

Postwarden 26-07-18 01:58 PM

1 Attachment(s)
The 22nd London title as it appeared in The Formation Sign.

If you'd been a member you'd have seen it.

Email militaryheraldrysociety@gmail.com to find out how to join. UK sub is £17 and can be paid by Paypal.

Jon

Drew 26-07-18 03:51 PM

Hello Jon,

I think there might be some misunderstanding. I am a member and I have seen the Jan-March issue with the 22nd London title in it. I thought I had mentioned this last point in the OP. I thought it was quite a rare example of such a colour combination for that period, and this thread was really just to wonder about if other London battalions may have used such colours and when.
My last post was just to muse about the differences between the 23rd London’s one from the 50s and the example in your excellent publication. I did not use any representations of what I had seen, artistic or otherwise, out of respect. Perhaps that is why you thought I had not seen it?

Regards,

Chris


QUOTE=Postwarden;449517]The 22nd London title as it appeared in The Formation Sign.

If you'd been a member you'd have seen it.

Email militaryheraldrysociety@gmail.com to find out how to join. UK sub is £17 and can be paid by Paypal.

Jon[/QUOTE]

Drew 26-07-18 07:23 PM

Apologies, I am at the coast and reception is very patchy. I could not see the 22nd battalion cloth title you posted at first. Thank you very much for your generosity in adding that.

Regards,
Chris


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