Originally Posted by Drew (Post 426903)

A theory as to how far London Regiment battalion patches changed from 1917 to the period after Jan/Feb 1918.

This theory is presumed from the evidence of photographs of the period rather than from the necessary Army Order or its equivalent. Hopefully I will be able to add such detail later. Many thanks to Forum members Jelly Terror and Orasot, and others like them, for their generosity in making their extensive collections and research available for all to view. It is their collections on which this is largely based. Any mistakes are, of course, my own. I apologise if this is already general knowledge for anyone. Try as I might though, I couldn't find this information anywhere, hence why I am posting.

I had originally thought that since brigades had been reduced from four to three battalions, in January 1918, and that since seniority had changed and many units had moved around, there must have been wholesale changes to insignia worn. However, I now think that the changes were as small as they could possibly be. This makes sense in terms of logistics and in trying to avoid confusion.

I believe that the only two battalions that 'completely' changed insignia were the 17th and 21st London Regiments (see illustrations). It can be seen that they completely changed brigades and that they would have had to change patch anyway. Staying with the 47th Division, other battalions did not change brigades. Technically, the order of seniority had changed as battalions left, and perhaps those remaining should have changed to a different suit, however, they did not do so. Seniority was 'heart', 'diamond', 'club' and 'spade'. Taking the 1/15th Londons as an example, with their yellow spade they were the least senior of the 140th Brigade in 1917. However, when the 1/6th, 1/7th and 1/8th Bns. left for the 58th Division after January 1918, they found themselves at the top in terms of seniority, ahead of the 1/17th and 1/19th Bns. Perhaps they should have therefore adopted the heart vacated by the 1/6th Bn, but as stated, they did not. One sees in postcards, magazines and other types of drawing, that men became attached to their particular suit to a certain degree. For whatever reason, the 15th Londons kept their yellow spade. The 141st and 142nd brigades too, stayed as they were, minus the heart suit and the battalions that had worn it. In the 47th Division, the heart suit went out of use.

With regard the 56th Division, all appear to have stayed the same, except that those signs used by the 1/3rd, 1/12th and 1/9th Bns. went out of use- a yellow square, red square and green diamond respectively.

In the case of the 58th Division, all apparently stayed the same, except that signs used by the 2/1st, 2/5th and 2/11th Bns. also ceased to be used (in this case a vertical red rectangle, vertical blue rectangle and a green triangle respectively). The Second Line battalions, that now welcomed the small cadre of their own First Lines, retained their own battalion patches that had been used in the 58th Division before. It could be argued that since the new amalgamated battalions were now in some sense the First Line (or at least its equivalent), that they had therefore changed from their 47th or 56th Division patches to new ones. However, this would be incredibly pedantic to insist upon. The battalions present in the 58th Division retained patches previously worn. The 1/9th Bn had used a green diamond ; the 9th Bn now used a green rectangle. This rectangle had been the patch of the 2/9th Bn throughout 1917.

I hope this is of use. Any corrections or comments very welcome.

Chris

Originally Posted by Drew (Post 427434)

I should say that in my illustration of the 2/6th London Regiment, I have depicted their battalion patch as a square. However, the IWM describes it as a dark blue diamond (black was originally written but has been crossed out).

I think this entry at the IWM must be wrong. In the first place, the 2/6th Bn patch that the IWM has does not look like a diamond...

Furthermore, a diamond does not fit the pattern of patches used in the 58th Division. The order of seniority for the 173rd and 175th Brigade was 1) Vertical rectangle 2) square 3) triangle 4) horizontal rectangle. A diamond does not fit this scheme...

It would be good to try and get photographic evidence to back-up or disprove my claim.

Chris

Originally Posted by Drew (Post 429040)

Here is a photo of "Bugler Murrell". I think he must be of the 2/6 or 6th Bn. London Regiment. The cap badge looks to have a strung bugle in the centre and it does not look like there is any writing on the left or lower part of the maltese cross.

Until firmer evidence comes along*, I think this may go some way to proving that the 6th Bn did indeed wear a square rather than a diamond patch.


*For example, writing on the back of the postcard or a clear view of a shoulder title etc.

Edit: It can also be seen from the IWM collection that the 1/9th, 2/9th and the 2/11th patches do not fit the evidence in this photograph. In other words, the only remaining 'Maltese cross' wearing London Rgt battalions did not wear a patch of this shape.