more fun with die statistics
 

As you know I have differentiated all the Pattern 4362A/1896 (1896-1926) badges and came up with 16 (for this exercise) different dies. These dies were for the horse and, particularly, the ground as they display clear differences. I went through 66 badges – 50 BM regular badges, 6 VBn badges and 10 TF Bns (only the badges with horse).

I’ve now got around to examining the scroll below. To my surprise there was one basic type – though there are minor details; humped scrolls, deeper flatish scrolls, curved dip and sharper dip.

Very few makers of the various horse dies are identified. But, it appeared that the scrolls were much more uniform than the horse dies.

Either all makers adhered quite strictly to a master design (in contrast to the horse designs!) or there was a maker that cornered the scroll (for KLR at least) dies – then sold them to the main makers ??

Has anyone else looked at bi-metal badges with differing dies for other units – preferably a main design and a scroll below. If so, have you also found a discrepancy between the variety of ‘main’ parts and the more uniform dies for the scrolls???

I think the East Surrey’s could be a good one to look at here as a comparison

Norfolk Regiment variation scrolls
 

I have 8 variations of the Norfolk Regiment (W/M Britannia enclosed in a wreath with a G/M scroll below). Whilst all scrolls can be said to be similar, each appears unique to the variation it's part of. The lettering is different for each variation (particularly of course the Lambourne & Co example), the 'font' used, spacing and placing of each letter differs from badge to badge. I can see no instance of the same scroll being used on different variations. To sum up, I would say the scroll on each variation I have is unique to that badge. I hope this is of some help.

I have also been looking closely at the eyes of the regimental badges that feature a sphinx, Lincs, Glosters, Dorset’s and Manchester WO badges as my sample pool.
There seem to be three main eye positions
1.open
2.closed
3.semi open or as I like to say somulent
The later I think can also be broken down into opening and closing.
Further to this some have a ‘surprised’ look.
I believe that these are linked to the various different Sphinx that exist in Egypt and also whether they were first discovered from the front or rear. The later could explain the surprised nature.
Opinions most welcome

Post no. 5 refers:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...crutable+smile

I agree with this. By the way, just have a look at all the different types of wreaths with berry’s on you can find for this badge, I think it’s about 40.

Theres a number of different Gloucestershire badges with varying quantities of berries on them.

The half open / closed eye is a very distinct aspect of the King's 1926 Pattern.

(There were very much fewer dies for the 1926 King's Patt than the large number of dies for the 1896 King's Patt - though most are probably made in the 1st WW.

Julian,

To date I have identified sixteen different dies for the pre-1924 QRWS Regiment cap badge - Patterns 4681/1898 and 4681A/1916 (O/Rs' badges only).

The scrolls differ from maker to maker, and it is even possible to identify variants from their scrolls. Whilst it has been possible to assign some of these dies to specific manufacturers, most remain as yet unidentified.


JT

Thanks Peter, Very interesting!
The B&P Quotation Book (NAM) lists badges etc from 1903 to 1916. (I counted all the 1903-14 but not, I'm afraid not the QRWS.
However the WO tender of April 1916 demanded 20,000 of the GM version - though that included the 23rd and 24th Bns of the London Regt. Even though they were more easily made one piece badges but even so I expect that there would be any number of dies for 20k !
The KLR did not have any "all GM" badges but the WO demanded 6k of the BM varseions.


It would be interesting to know the life span of a die (pair) in the early 20th century - even though 6k must have exhausted x dies.....

Indeed it would.

I have identified/recorded eight separate all-G/M dies for the pre-1924 QRWS O/Rs' cap badge, each of which, apart from one, has a corresponding bi-metal version.

However, as can be deduced from the above statement, not every bi-metal variant has a corresponding all-G/M counterpart.

By way of example, below are two of the eight variants which have bi-metal and all-G/M versions:

Attachment 231326

Attachment 231327

I am going to start an analysis of all horse and sphinx badges. This should help to identify which makers used awake, somulent or sleeping beasts in their dies. From here a spacial study could be revealing.

A badgery menagerie.

We could pie chart and do a bar chart or line graph

New verb: to pie chart.