Canadian Canvas Flashes
 

Does anybody have a list of the authorised canvas flashes issued to the Canadian Army 1939-45?
I am bringing this up as I saw a large display of flashes in Ottawa and was told that some of the canvas flashes were fantasy pieces. These were to units that did not go overseas. I would have to do some rooting around to find the units.
I was told that some of these flashes were made up by a now deceased dealer in Ottawa a number of years ago. I picked up a number of RCCS formation patches from this dealer and it was only after some rather pointed questions from me that the sales assistant admitted that these badges were not original.
Any thoughts?

Hello Phil, I have been researching the issue of embroidered and printed shoulder titles to the Canadian army for a few years. I have serveral hundred documents from archives dealing with the issue of canvas. From these docs there will be a list of the printed titles when the project comes together.
The material from the Ottawa dealer is relatively easy to determine as to authenticity. His bad canvas had many traits that were catalogued and are available for evaluation. Of more concern are some canvas repros being made overseas. They are very good and will fool many collectors.
Essentially, canvas was issued to all the units and formations on the order of battle in Europe. That is the start. A few odd ones creep in, like the Kiska patch or the CTTC patch. If the unit was not on the order of battle of the Canadian Army overseas they shouldn't have canvas. (Eg R de Levis, R de Quebec, R de Montmagny, Oxford Rifles, plus more.)

One thing to watch with these Canadian fakes is he likes to date stamp the reverses especially the para one to enhance them. And watch the London auction house they have the family dispersal for the estate of this faker.

Traits?
 

Bill,

You sayWhere is such a "catalogue"? I have a couple of these badges myself and know them as fakes by their feel/look but I'd have trouble describing the traits. If you could point us in the right direction it'd be appreciated.

Hello Joe, Welcome to the forum. Hope to see lots of RCCS posts.
The "traits" or characteristics that mark a repro from the lot in Ottawa include:

1. off colours
2. no cut lines
3. letters with the wrong font (R vs R)
4. poorly balanced lettering
5. feel of the title (as you indicate)
6. poor registration on the silk screening of the various colours (either white showing through where it shouldn't or overlapping
   colours)
7. fantasy title (titles to units that were not overseas and did not have a canvas title issued)

Some Ottawa fakes...
 

....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...badges0002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...badges0003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...badges0005.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...badges0004.jpg

Thanks for the images Mike. If I remeber correctly, your dad catalogued all of the bogus material and had it destroyed?

Yes Bill..that is what I believe happened...M.

Cut lines?
 

Bill,

What does "no cut lines" mean?

In addition, I could spot the canvas types quite easily but the cloth seems harder. I'll have to be careful!!!

"no cut lines" means just that. There are no cut lines visable on the flash. The cut lines are a hashed or dashed outline around the title that show where the titles are to be cut. It has been my limited experiance that these marks are of the same colour as the ink used to print the lettering of the title.

I am not currently at home, I am using my fathers computer so I have no access to my Irish Regt of Canada canvas titles to show you what I mean. I am certain someone will post a photo showing what I am trying to explain.

Just a note about cut lines. Cut lines are often not visible on good canvas titles. Cut lines are just another one of the many things to look for when examing a piece for authenticity.
Another clue to a reproduction is the weight of the material. All good canvas is either the thin cotton material, or a little bit heavier weight with a coarser ribbing. The much heavy material patterns that are sometimes found are in my opinion suspect.

Example of Regiment de Levis listed on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_177wt_1362

Phil

Cut and paste the image to your fantasy badge files. Another one of the phoney canvas that a dealer in Ottawa had made up years ago.

But he says:

"Lot 13 is a printed canvas shoulder title. This rare pattern is controversial the few known examples all being in mint unused condition both the ‘style’ & ‘fabric’ indicate WWII manufacture but the regiment never proceeded to Great Britain where the canvas titles were produced, only serving in Canada. If counterfeit these titles would be common but their rarity indicates they are more likely a manufacturers sample. Sold ‘as is’ without my usual guarantee of authentication."

;)

Phil

I am really surprised that Chis is even listing that flash. Thought he was one of the most knowledgeable guys out there.