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-   -   SA Naval ForcesLieut Should board insignia (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60909)

RCN 29-03-17 12:36 PM

SA Naval ForcesLieut Should board insignia
 
Never seen this before, so thought I would ask- seen these SA Navy shoulder boards on a site recently - I have never seen coloured cloth behind the buttons in the past - what does this signify?

I know Medical Officers (Doctors, Surgeons) had red cloth between the gold lace, could this be a variant ?

Thanks,
Bryan

http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q...psegjdgf6k.jpg

navyfred 29-03-17 01:37 PM

Bryan,

The orange cloth denotes that they were South African. I have seen many variations of the shade of orange so would suggest that they are both just SAN.

Regards fred

Arthur R 29-03-17 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navyfred (Post 399328)
The orange cloth denotes that they were South African. I have seen many variations of the shade of orange so would suggest that they are both just SAN.

Agree. The orange triangles were the naval equivalent of the orange strips which the army and air force wore across the other end of the shoulder strap. On the jacket, the orange flash was worn as a square, balanced on one point like a diamond, above the rank lace.

The orange flash was more than just an indicator of nationality. It meant that the wearer had attested for service "anywhere in Africa" (1940-43) or "anywhere in the world" (1943-45). As the Union Defence Forces were restricted by law to operating in southern Africa, this voluntary attestation was the only way in which its personnel and units could be deployed farther afield.

RCN 29-03-17 06:00 PM

THANKS Fred & Arthur,

I did not know about the orange triangles being worn by the SA Forces, but I do have to admit that my knowledge of the SA Navy is not very good, but its good to learn something new!

I did note on the two shoulder boards, one button has SA on either side of the anchor but the other has no lettering. & on the second pair no lettering on either button.
Any reason for this?

Bryan

Arthur R 29-03-17 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCN (Post 399359)
I did note on the two shoulder boards, one button has SA on either side of the anchor but the other has no lettering. & on the second pair no lettering on either button.
Any reason for this?

The official button from 1939 to 1942 was the crowned anchor. The letters SA were added in 1942, around the time that the Seaward Defence Force was renamed 'SA Naval Forces'. Perhaps the officer originally had the pre-1942 button on both, and later had to replace one of them.

Alex Rice 30-03-17 05:45 AM

Nice shoulder straps, not that common and used from 1940-1950. Buttons for the SANF and its predecessors were in short supply and it's doubtful whether many of them were even used during the war, although they were sealed, I believe. Standard RN buttons were often just used as an alternate.
Cheers,
Alex

milhistry 02-04-17 01:48 AM

Of course the Royal Navy's South Atlantic Fleet was stationed at Simonstown until c.1957. The South Atlantic Station was commanded by a Rear-Adm, RN while the SANF was commanded by a Captain (SANF), later upgraded to a Commodore 2nd Class. Many members of the SANF had previously served in the RNVR (SA Division) so not out of place to find RN buttons on the shoulder straps.

RCN 02-04-17 02:11 PM

Thanks for the responses mates. They have improved my knowledge of the SANF!

The same situation concerning buttons occurred in the RCN & RCNVR during that 2WW period. Many officers took courses given by the RN in the Uk & wore the RN buttons as well. During the Great war & between the wars periods the RCN wore RN buttons.
Canada did not appear on Officers or CPO/PO buttons in the RCN until early in 2WW.

Bryan

RCN 04-04-17 12:01 PM

SANF Buttons
 
Here are two SA KC buttons if anyone might be interested:

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/201878967968?...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Bryan

milhistry 05-04-17 09:00 AM

SANF Petty Officers wearing red diamonds
 
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205158510

milhistry 05-04-17 09:08 AM

SANF Officers with red diamonds
 
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205158513

RCN 05-04-17 11:38 AM

Thanks for posting the photos!

I notice the two PO's are wearing shoulder titles(however the Officers are not), do they indicate SOUTH AFRICA?
similar to those worn by Canada, New Zealand, Australia.


Bryan

Alex Rice 05-04-17 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RCN (Post 400239)
Thanks for posting the photos!

I notice the two PO's are wearing shoulder titles(however the Officers are not), do they indicate SOUTH AFRICA?
similar to those worn by Canada, New Zealand, Australia.


Bryan

Yes, as you say.

milhistry 29-04-17 03:18 AM

3 Attachment(s)
First ones from my own collection. The last one possibly photographed at the War Museum in Jhb a long time ago.

Alex Rice 29-04-17 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milhistry (Post 400224)

Interesting to see the officers with the wartime 'austerity' stripes, in other words, to save on gold-lace, the stripes didn't go all round the cuff, just a half ring.
Cheers,
Alex


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