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-   -   191st (Herts. & Essex Yeo.) Field Regt. RA. (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64622)

Hoot 02-10-17 11:12 AM

191st (Herts. & Essex Yeo.) Field Regt. RA.
 
Hello all, could anyone tell me what badges were worn by the above unit?. I imagine they would have worn the normal RA badges but I was told by an old WW2 veteran, as we looked at the grave of a gunner of the above unit in Bayeux War Cemetery, that he would have worn a badge of the design shown on his headstone. The badge on the stone was the Hart atop the Essex shield. The old veteran would have been in his 80s by then so probably he was mistaken. He wasn't in the unit himself but was of the opinion that all headstones for British personnel only carried the cap badge designs. I know that is not always the case. I thought the design on that particular headstone was from an arm badge the Regiment wore and if there was a cap badge with the Hart atop the Essex shield then I've never seen one. Any help much appreciated, thanks. Hoot.

Alan O 02-10-17 01:44 PM

Headstones are not always reflective of the actual badge worn. In some cases, like this one the units' badges are an amalgam of Yeomanry badges rather than the actual ones worn.

http://www.militarian.com/threads/re...ment-ra.10266/ - Shows the RA gun in use.

Alan

Mike Jackson 02-10-17 03:11 PM

191 Fd Regt RA
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here's the unique arm badge being worn. Mike
Attachment 178806Attachment 178807

manchesters 02-10-17 03:27 PM

I scoured Norman Litchfields book, "The Territorial Artillery" in an attempt to answer this question but drew a blank.

Looking at the chapters on Essex and Hertfordshire I couldnt find a mention of this unit or a picture of the arm badge.

Very unusual for it not to be in there or am I just looking in the wrong sections?

regards

54Bty 02-10-17 04:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by manchesters (Post 422862)
I scoured Norman Litchfields book, "The Territorial Artillery" in an attempt to answer this question but drew a blank.

Looking at the chapters on Essex and Hertfordshire I couldnt find a mention of this unit or a picture of the arm badge.

Very unusual for it not to be in there or am I just looking in the wrong sections?

regards

The Regiment was "War Formed", not Territorial.

Marc

manchesters 02-10-17 05:24 PM

Oh, the Herts & Essex Yeomanry title sent me the wrong direction.

Thankyou

regards

Hoot 02-10-17 06:10 PM

Thanks gents, that's the badge I saw on the headstone for certain. If it was ever made in metal as a cap badge it would certainly be a cracker but I can't see it somehow.

Mike Jackson 02-10-17 07:41 PM

191 Fd Regt RA
 
My notes on the subject:

191 (Herts and Essex Yeo) Fd Regt RA
The Regiment was formed on 29 Nov 42 and the unit sign was designed by the CO when the unit was stationed at Trowbridge in the Spring of 1943. Commenting on the design, the CRA (Commander Royal Artillery) is quoted to have said, “Well, I don’t suppose that it can do any bloody harm!” The sign (known colloquially by the soldiers as the Goat and Cutlasses was particularly welcomed by those members of 86 (Herts Yeo) Fd Regt RA and 147 (Essex Yeo) Fd Regt RA from which 191 (Herts and Essex Yeo) Fd Regt was formed. Many officers of 191 Fd Regt RA continued to wear their former Yeomanry cap and collar badges together with cloth shoulder titles ROYAL ARTILLERY and RA Arm of Service strips.

Hoot 04-10-17 06:00 PM

It would seem my memory is not as sharp as I thought. It was twelve years ago when I visited Bayeux War Cemetery and saw the headstone in question and, having looked it up, the design is far more elaborate than I remember. The Essex shield is within a circle, the wording on the circle reads "Herts & Essex Yeomanry", the Hart stands atop the circle and below the circle is a scroll bearing the title "191Field Regt. R.A.". It's certainly an impressive design. Growing old is a curse.:)

Expat Yeoman 04-10-17 09:22 PM

Hoot, the design was only made and used as the cloth arm badge, never in metal / as a cap badge.

Michael

Hoot 04-10-17 09:56 PM

Thanks for that Michael.

royG 01-12-19 01:22 PM

I have one here,I took a picture for you, heres what i found out
 
1 Attachment(s)
191st (Hertfordshire and Essex Yeomanry) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery

In April 1943 Lt-Col Cochrane devised an arm badge for the regiment comprising the red shield bearing three golden*seaxes*from the Essex Yeomanry badge, surmounted by the golden*hart*of the Herts Yeomanry badge, embroidered on a green diamond (the Herts Yeomanry colour). Although strictly unofficial and not conforming to*Army Council*Instructions, the badge (worn on both arms) was well-regarded by members of the regiment who nicknamed it the 'Goat and Cutlasses'. Uniquely, it was adopted by the*Commonwealth War Graves Commission*instead of an authorised cap badge to be carved on the headstones of members of the regiment who died on service

From <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/191st_(Hertfordshire_and_Essex_Yeomanry)_Field_Reg iment,_Royal_Artillery#Insignia>

Hoot 02-12-19 09:36 AM

Roy, thanks for that.

Expat Yeoman 03-12-19 11:56 PM

I've come across some further photos of the regiment which confirm RA badges being worn on headdress. I have never seen the diamond patch worn as headress, only as the arm badge, the origins of which are as quoted above.

EY


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