Loyal Regiment and Brigade Seniority
 

I happen to have bought this BD blouse badged to the 1st Btn The Loyal Regiment, 1st British Division. Just wondering why the Brigade bars are two, since The Loyals were in the 2nd Infantry Brigade, senior brigade in the division. The Bevo combination sign seems to have been folded somewhen so as to show only one bar denoting seniority and successively restitched fully extended: any hints of the Loyal Regiment having been transferred to a Brigade second in seniority within 1st Division? any evidence of use of a different system of seniority bars in the 1st Division? When was the "Loyals" title introduced? Thank you for your help and knowledge, gents!

Surely the 1st Brigade is the Senior in the Division?

regards

1st Guards Brigade would have been Senior but has been with the 1st Division only 03/09/39-01/06/41 and the BD blouse is dated 1942, as long as I can see. If 2nd Brigade became Senior in 1941, the formation sign should not be unfolded, but folded so as to show only one bar, isn't it?

I appreciate the 1st Brigade moved on in 1941 but it was replaced by another Brigade, in this case the 210th and then the , 38th, 24th, 18th and then the 66th so the 2nd Brigade always remained the 2nd didnt it?

Loyal Regiment and Brigade Seniority
 

The 1st Infantry Division was made up of the following

1 Inf Bde (Gds) 3.9.39 - 1.6.41
2 Inf Bde 3.9.39 - 31.6.45
3 Inf Bde 3.9.39 - 31.8.45

210 Inf Bde 25.11.41 - 12.1.42
38 (Irish) Inf Bde 13.1.42 - 7.6.42
34 Tk Bde 8.6.42 - 2.9.42
25 Tk Bde 3..9.42 - 13.11.42
24 Inf Bde (Gds) 6.12.42 - 7.3.44
18 Inf Bde 8.3.44 - 16.8.44
66 Inf Bde 19.8.44 - 31.8.45

The 2nd Inf Bde took over seniority on 1.6.41 when the 1st Inf Bde (Gds) left the division

In June 1942 the division changed to a mixed division and Tank Brigades were added to it. Surely they would have taken seniority as they were Cavalry.

Just an idea

Ian

Wouldn't a Guards Brigade, regardless of the number, be senior to a brigade formed from infantry of the line? I'm sure anyone who was / is a Guardsman would agree.

Cheers,
Dan.

That was my guess as well, but i was not sure whether a Tank Brigade would have taken seniority: in any case, the temporal window is quite narrow, a mere 5 months, although right in 1942. But I guess that 24th Guards Brigade could also have taken seniority, and for rather longer time (15 months).

Another conundrum to me would be that the woven badge with bars and embroidered title would be very late war, would they not?

CB

Perhaps worn later (1946-1947) in Palestine and / or Egypt when 1 LOYALS were serving in the 1st Infantry Division.

Tim

1 Loyals have been serving in the 1st Division for the duration of the war, in the 2nd Infantry Brigade. Do you happen to know the composition of the 1st Infantry Division after the war? Could have been in the division a brigade that preceded 2nd Infantry Brigade as seniority is concerned?

1st Div 45-48
 

Palestine

66 Brigade;
6th Gordon Highlanders
11th Lancaster Fusiliers
1st Hertford Regiment

2 Brigade;
2nd Royal Scots
North Staffordshire Regiment
Loyal North Lancaster Regiment

3 Brigade;
2nd Sherwood Foresters
1st Kings Shropshire Light Infantry
1st Duke of Wellington Regiment

THEN

1st Guards Brigade;
3rd Grenadiers
3rd Coldstream
1st Welsh

2nd Infantry Brigade;
2nd Royal Warwickshire Regiment
1st Suffolk Regiment
1st Highland Light Infantry

3rd Infantry Brigade;
1st Kings Own Scottish Borders
2nd Royal Lincolnshire Regiment
2nd Royal Irish Fusiliers

As told to me by my father who served in 1st Guards Brigade, 1st Inf Division
Tim.

Thank you Tim: I am just wondering how could it be that 66 Brigade would come BEFORE - as seniority is concerned - 2nd Brigade. I guess it should be the other way round?

Perhaps the administrative flow-ons from changing brigade seniority several times simply on the basis of numbering might have worn thin by the end of the war.

Not only would the uniform insignia need to be changed but other aspects of affiliation would also have suffered. Each battalion and brigade headquarters had a vehicle unit sign, white numerals on red, green, or brown, background for infantry, that denoted the seniority of the brigade within the division, and the battalion within the brigade. Although many types of vehicles had these fitted in brackets, others had them painted directly onto the body, necessitating labour and material which were no doubt in short supply, not to mention time-consuming, to change while more important operational matters were in progress.

Brigades were also generally affiliated with certain divisional units (all with their own seniority) and there may have been no interest in disturbing these affiliations.

Just a thought.

Keith