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-   -   17th british division (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84298)

tarabelle 10-04-21 08:55 AM

17th british division
 
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Hey :)

So a very kind member identified the black cat patch as 17th british division and for malaya. I've looked for some info but havent found any only see 17th gurkha :confused:
I'm posting on this thread as I think this is the right one
Can anyone explain this to me as I see 17th indian and 17th gurkha :confused:

Thanks

T X
These arent mines

mike_vee 10-04-21 09:46 AM

Some info from Wiki :

17th Infantry Division (India)

Quote:

It was first formed in 1941, in Ahmednagar in India. It consisted then of the 44th, 45th and 46th Indian Infantry Brigades, and was intended to garrison Iraq. At the end of the year, war with Imperial Japan broke out and the division was split; 44th and 45th Brigades were despatched to Malaya where 45th Brigade fought in the Battle of Muar before both brigades were lost in the Battle of Singapore;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/17th_I...vision_(India))


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tarabelle 10-04-21 09:50 AM

Thank you Mike :)

The other member mentioned that this one was after the war so I maybe got it wrong and thought it was for the war in Malaysia after the war :confused:

T X

mike_vee 10-04-21 10:28 AM

I have seen a few listings that claim the "Black Cats" were from the 1950's and wonder if the mix up was because the 17th Gurkha Division was involved in the Malayan Emergency ?


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tarabelle 10-04-21 10:48 AM

That's all I could see to and got a bit confused :confused:

irishhorse 10-04-21 11:00 AM

British Cloth Formation Signs by B.L Morris Part 1.Has the black cat on yellow rectangle. As 17th (British) Division, post war Malaya. In the same book, a similar badge 17th Indian Division. Is decribed as "A black cat on a green square also found in khaki, white or dark blue backgrounds. Similar sign worn by 17th Division in Malaya in the 1950's a black cat on yellow rectangle".

leigh kitchen 10-04-21 11:05 AM

I think the WWII era 17 Indian Div differed from the post war badge in that the former's cats had eyes, the latter didn't.

tarabelle 10-04-21 11:27 AM

Thank you Irishhorse :)

I couldnt find anything searching :)

T X

mike_vee 10-04-21 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishhorse (Post 545592)
British Cloth Formation Signs by B.L Morris Part 1.Has the black cat on yellow rectangle. As 17th (British) Division, post war Malaya. In the same book, a similar badge 17th Indian Division. Is decribed as "A black cat on a green square also found in khaki, white or dark blue backgrounds. Similar sign worn by 17th Division in Malaya in the 1950's a black cat on yellow rectangle".

This is what confuses me :confused:

Was there actually a 17th (British) Division in Malaya ? I can find details of the 17th (Gurkha) Division , including the patch they wore but no information about a British Division ?

Sorry if I'm being dumb or am I simply missing something . :confused:


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tarabelle 10-04-21 01:04 PM

I'm glad to see I'm not the only confused one Mike :)

T X

tarabelle 10-04-21 01:30 PM

Does this help figure it out at all ???

https://www.militaria-sales.com.au/p...laya-district/

T X

Postwarden 10-04-21 01:39 PM

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The following details extracted from several sections of my book Badges on Battle Dress explain the history of your sign.Some samples of the 17th Indian Division's sign are shown for comparison.

Jon

The 17th Indian Division which was formed in 1941 and disbanded in 1947 wore as its sign the black cat. There are several versions, all on neutral backgrounds.

Following Indian Independence several Gurkha Regiments transferred to the British Army and the decision was made to form a Gurkha Division. This took the title 17th Gurkha Division and adopted as its sign crossed kukris which at different times were worn on black or green backgrounds, The 17th Gurkha Division played a major part in the Malayan Emergency but when that ended a start was made in early 1962 on dismantling the division The revolt in Brunei which began in May 1962 halted this rundown and a renamed 17th Division which included British and Gurkha Troop was formed which served in Brunei and later in Borneo. In February 1964 the 17th Division adopted a new formation sign based on the wartime black cat of 17th Indian Division but with a distinct yellow background.

When the 17th Division returned to Malaya instructions were issued that from December 1965 the black cat would be worn on both arms by all unbrigaded units and personnel in 17th Division/Malaya District, replacing the maroon-backed kris where that was still worn. HQ, Brigade of Gurkhas and its Training Depot retained black-backed, crossed kukris on both arms but HQ, Gurkha Engineers, its 70th Park Training Squadron, 17th Gurkha Signal Regiment, HQ, Gurkha Transport Regiment and its 34th Squadron wore black-backed kukris on the left sleeve and 17th Divisionís sign on the right. The Army Air Corpsí Theatre Flight and its REME 75th Aircraft Workshops wore FARELFís sign on the left, the AAC eagle on the right. Your badges would almost certainly have been worn by an officer serving with the AACís theatre Flight. The Divisionís brigades continued to wear their brigade signs.

The 17th Division and its cat sign disappeared when Britain decided to withdraw from its Far East commitments in 1967

tarabelle 10-04-21 01:51 PM

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Thank you :)

So the badges belong together then ? Would the wings have been his too they all came together would they be the right age :confused:

T X

mike_vee 10-04-21 05:05 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Postwarden (Post 545607)
The following details extracted from several sections of my book Badges on Battle Dress explain the history of your sign.Some samples of the 17th Indian Division's sign are shown for comparison.

Jon

Thanks for the explanation Jon , my confusion was caused by the Wiki page about the 17th Infantry Division (India). They show the black cat on yellow background with the description :

Quote:

Grandfather's Shoulder patch when Commanding 10th Princess Mary's Own Gurkhas as part of 17th Black Cat Infantry Division (India)


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