I really don’t believe it is a souvenir piece for several reasons.

Firstly if it was a bespoke finished souvenir I would have thought a conversion to a broach would be very likely for non-service wear or display.

Second, the condition and wear. As you can see the badge itself shows what I’d regard as clear signs of service wear. The loops are battered and the badge itself has been purposely shaped and curved - undoubtedly to fit a cap. I strongly doubt a souvenir piece would exhibit these traits.

Lastly the period photographs I’ve seen of Manchester Pals badges being worn. Some, including one very close up and clear portrait postcard, are literally bright as buttons with not the slightest trace of darker bronzing even in hard to polish areas such as the recesses. Now these soldiers could potentially have been OCD polishers but equally I feel it’s possible the bronzing isn’t visible as it was never there in the first place.

Over the years I have seen a few of these badges which I don’t believe to have ever been bronzed so I think it’s entirely possible a batch or run was finished in a different way (mistake, altered requirement etc.) and issued. Certainly photographic evidence doesn’t conflict with this and I know where I work you wear what you’re issued even if the person next to you gets a different shade/style etc. of the same kit due to different batches or manufacturers.

Personally I’m convinced this badge and ones like it were worn in service but wholeheartedly accept the ‘standard’ finish should be bronzed brass. That said I completely understand others may disagree with the above or my interpretation. I think this is potentially one of those subjects that ultimately comes down to opinion and individual views on the written record conflicting with what’s found.

Perhaps the owner of the smashing postcard will see this thread and post a picture to add to this interesting subject and debate.

Luke,

I have a very extensive collection of WW1 and earlier photographs of members of the Manchester Regiment of all Battalions including the Pals.

Careful study of these has led me towards a theory that I have not mentioned before because its just that, a theory, but it would go some way to explaining the badge and what you have said and another member here earlier in the discussion.

There were 8 City Battalions who undoubtedly were issued with bronzed brass cap badges, and the Platoon photographs in the Book of Honour along with my photographic reference library, certainly prove this. I am talking here about 1914 and 1915. As the war progressed no doubt the finish came off and equally many men joining after the Battalions were at the front wore standard bi-metal cap badges.

There was a further Battalion that wore the 'Pals' cap badge, and that was the 24th (Oldham) Bn, who also had their own distinctive shoulder title. As you know the City battalions had there own Bronzed shoulder titles to match the cap badge. However in the 24th the shoulder title is not bronzed and its my believe having studied their Oldham, Battalion of Comrades Book of Honour Platoon photographs and my own photographs that they wore your badge, ie - An un bronzed 'Pals' cap badge.

Its something I had discerned some time ago and forgotton about until today when you wrote about your badge and I have just re checked my notes and looked at the Oldham Platoon Photos and mine and am more convinced that this is the case.

Something for you all to think about.

regards

curiosity killed the cat. I succumbed and unscrewed the back off the frame.

Nice original, bronzed brass badges, showing good wear to the finish as expected.

regards

My cap badge was almost certainly worn by a member of the 24th Oldham battalion as it came with this shoulder title. Perhaps their cap badges were also issued unbronzed.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ctureid=146705

Have been fortunate enough to acquire a second example, this time in almost pristine condition.

Superb badge Luke !

Mike

Luke,
Perfect Oldham Comrades cap badge
Regards

Thanks gents, very pleased. It looks rather impressive on a dark background.

Must've been the Australian sunshine that kept it so radiant. Came with a nice condition solid BM badge also.

I'm interested in the manufacturing side of the cap badge, where they all made by one manufacturer for say one regiment or not, If not, then there could be a slight difference in the cap badge for the one regiment. Still learning. Gerwyn

Its been several years since I started this thread, any further sightings of Manchester Pals badges with a similar fault to mine? Regards, Paul.

There was a further Battalion that wore the 'Pals' cap badge, and that was the 24th (Oldham) Bn, who also had their own distinctive shoulder title. As you know the City battalions had there own Bronzed shoulder titles to match the cap badge. However in the 24th the shoulder title is not bronzed and its my believe having studied their Oldham, Battalion of Comrades Book of Honour Platoon photographs and my own photographs that they wore your badge, ie - An un bronzed 'Pals' cap badge.

Its something I had discerned some time ago and forgotton about until today when you wrote about your badge and I have just re checked my notes and looked at the Oldham Platoon Photos and mine and am more convinced that this is the case.

Something for you all to think about.

regards[/QUOTE]

Here is some photographic evidence that corroborates your hypothesis. Undoubtedly, Oldham Pioneers.

High Wood,

Definately the 24th Bn, but not wearing a Pals badge I am afraid, just the standard Bimetal cap badge.

Reinforcements and replacements from 1916 onwards didnt have the luxury of Pals cap badges in a lot of cases, such as this.

regards

Oh well, bang goes that clinching bit of evidence.