Royal Marines Submarine Miners
 

The RMSM formed on 5th Feb 1915 with a nucleus of officers and NCOs who had served with the Tyne Electrical Engineers. The shoulder title RMSM occasionally appears but is probably the scarcest of RM metal titles.

I've known of a group photo that belonged to the late John Atherton that showed the title and was amazed when it appeared on ebay recently, so delighted to be able to examine it carefully. The attached image is from a scan at 4400 dpi so the detail of the title and cap badge is clear.

The variation in insignia of the group is testament to the difficulties of identifying insignia during war time.
Caps - the cap badges in use show some men wearing RMLI cap badges with RMSM shoulder titles.
One or perhaps two wear RMLI cap badges with the strings broken off the bugle.
Three different patterns are collar badge are worn as cap badges by the rest of the men, including a very 'skinny' version that only appears to have been worn as a cap badge.
Several wear no shoulder titles at all.
The three officers between them manage to wear two different patterns of collar badge and two different patterns of cap badge and infact - two different patterns of cap.
Not insignia - but the boots of the front rank - only one has laces that are sufficient and all but one wear trousers that need to be turned up as they are too long.

Little is actually uniform about this group.
Yours
John

PS be delighted if anyone has an RMSM title to dispose of and would like to contact me.

Some more detail
 

Additional detail of variations in badges that were worn in caps by the unit.

John,

The same RMSM shoulder title was worn on the greatcoats by the Royal Military School of Music, so there should be a few more than you thought about.

regards

Hi Simon
Do you have a source for this, I was never able to trace Ray Westlake's assertion back to dress regs, an order or clothing book,
Thanks
John

No,

Just going off Westlake.

Thinking about it they may be a different size.

regards

There is an article written by Ray Westlake in conjunction with the late John Atherton that I have on the RMSM shoulder title. He states that the RMSM shoulder title worn by the Royal Marine Submarine Miners is the same as the one worn by the Royal Military School of Music from 1936.
Clothing Regulations for 1936 worn only on greatcoats in brass the title RMSM.

John

Hi John
I have the 1936 regulations for the army and shoulder titles are listed in appendix 4, p154-157, no mention of RMSM - albeit no mention of RMSM at all in the entire document, which to me seems odd when both bands and other training establishments are covered.
Do you have the exact reference?
Thanks
John

Hi John
Sorry I don't he just states in clothing Regulations for 1936.

Regards
John

Royal marine submariners
 

Bootnecks in submarines!!!! First reaction was shock and horror but have done a little research into Royal and defensive mine laying, watching and firing. What a fascinating subject and what a fascinating thread to raise the subject. Thanks forum.....Up Spirits:D

And ... 'Hands to Dance and Sing' !!

There are one or two memorials to lost Subs that include the names of Royal Marines - wonder what they were doing!

Is that Russell Crowe's grandfather in the first photo?