RN Cap Tallies. Help sought
 

Can someone help me please...
I have three tallies all GOLD in colour (the picture doesn't make it as gold as they actually are)

Two I can guess may be correct but the Barnham not....unless you can tell me otherwise.

They all seem to be the same manufacture and all full length 36/37 inches

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

Images attached (and rotated) for ease of reference - sorry I cannot help out, not my area of collecting.

Thank you!
I'll have to learn how to do that..

as per my handle...I'm new to this collection and have a lot of questions.

Cheers,
Paul

RN Cap Tallies. Help sought.
 

Hi Paul

The HMS FLINTHAM and the HMS SABRE tallies are genuine but the HMS BARHAM tally is a reproduction.

BARHAM was a battleship in service in the inter-war period and during the war, when she was sunk. Ratings were issued with two types of tally at this time - one with the lettering in gold wire and one with the lettering in silk. Tallies of this period also had a 'dot' at the end of the name.

No ship called Barham has served in the Royal Navy since the war. During the 1960s (the 20th anniversary of the events of the war) there were not enough genuine tallies in existence to satisfy the demand of those veterans who wanted souvenirs of their service, so many reproductions were made - especially of capital ships. And of course, reproductions have continued to be made since then.

The other tallies look fine.

HMS FLINTHAM was one of 93 ships of the 'Ham' class of inshore minesweepers. They were all named after English villages ending in '-ham'. Flintham is in Nottinghamshire - not far from where I live. She was in service between 1955 - 82.

HMS SABRE was a 102-ton patrol boat launched on 21st April 1970 and was one of three boats making up the Fast Training Boat Squadron based at Portland. She was sold in 1983.

There is another HMS SABRE in service today but this is not a tally for her.

On pre-war tallies the lettering was different from those shown on your tallies. This pattern of tally was introduced in the early-1960s and was in use until 1984. Once again two types of tally were issued - one with the lettering in gold-wire and one with the lettering in rayon (a sort of nylon). In 1984 both of these were replaced with a new weave pattern of tally in a new sort of wire. That is how its possible to date your SABRE tally and be specific as to which vessel it was for.

Unfortunately, because of the photographs I am unable to be specific as to whether your tallies are gold-wire or rayon. The fronts look like rayon but the backs look like wire! Sorry! You should be able to work that out for yourself!

I hope that this has been of some help!

Pete

Upon reflection I think all your tallies are rayon.

Pete

Pete, that's perfect information!
Many thanks...
I understood that the Barnham was wrong as I looked into the history and since the sinking there are no other Barnham's....
My confusion lay in the fact that they are both the same type of manufacture...in this case rayon. Very deep gold colour.

I have a few with what I have called "new weave".... ca n I forward a scan of one to you to check please? I have a few tallies for the same ship but with different weave....very confusing!

I also have two with the "wall to wall" stitching...I'm sure it has a proper name...but they are slightly different in size! Can I put these two also on the forum for experts like yourself to consider?

I have two tallies...HMRML 495 and HMRML 529.... they a re both old and slightly discoloured... are these the Rescue Motor Launches which have been mentioned in past threads (which have proven to be great information).

You are a genuine good find for me! Many. Thanks,
Paul

Onto some silly questions...
I have a few with the "tiddly" still attached ...not that you would put them on a cap now...should I keep them as such or undo them?

How many types of stitching are there?

I have some dot tallies and going by my own research they seem good...a lot of remakes are with the so called " wall to wall" which are wrong. Mine are all old.
I also have an old HMS Royal Sovereren if I post this one too can you tell me if it's a good one or not?

Thanks for your expertise!
Paul

Royal Oak not Sovereren

Hi Paul

Please feel free to ask any questions you want! I can't promise that I'll be able to answer them all but I'll do my best.

Also please feel free to post any images of tallies you want and I'll give you my opinion.

You asked about how many different types of weave have there been. I'll try and sort some info out for you. But don't forget that there have also been printed tallies too.

I take it that you have some tallies that are still tied and have a bow. Personally I always leave them tied. I think most collectors do.

Pete

HMS Royal Oak

25 inches with a little damage to the ribbon.

Seems old to me...what do you Think?

Thanks for looking,
Paul

Image attached and rotated

Mate, can you send me a PM and tell me how to do this please?
I have more to list but I couldn't work out how you did the listing.

In the meantime, many thanks for the help!

Paul

Hi Paul

One way to convert PDF to JPG is to use this free site :

https://www.adobe.com/uk/acrobat/onl...7X3W9&mv=other



.

thanks Mike...I'll give it a go!

RN Cap Tallies. Help sought.
 

Hi Paul.

I'm afraid that your HMS ROYAL OAK tally isn't a genuine Royal Navy issue tally. It's actually one produced for a boy's sailor suit somewhere around the 1890s - 1900s. Sailor suits were very popular wear for boys (and, with skirts, for girls) at that time. These suits generally came with a cap tally bearing the name of a battleship and many even had little trade badges and badges of rating.

Even though it's not RN issue it's still a nice object and it's about 120 years old so worth hanging onto just as an object of curiosity.

I wouldn't worry too much about the length of an old tally - especially if it has been used. A new tally would be issued in a certain length (it varied at certain times) but would be cut down to fit the ratings cap. And many tallies may have been 'trimmed' over the years by collectors. It is common to find 'cut-down' tallies for sale which consist of just the letters of the ships name. The rest of the tally has just been cut off. This is often done as it's simpler for them to be displayed in a frame. I don't collect those myself.

I will see if I can post a nice image of a child's sailor suit for you so that you can see the sort of thing I mean. And then, if it's OK by you I'll give you a bit of background history to the RN cap tally whch might be of interest for you.

Pete