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-   -   Are there any Submarine experts out there? Kill flag? (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67107)

macandpud 22-03-18 08:36 PM

Are there any Submarine experts out there? Kill flag?
 
3 Attachment(s)
I picked this unofficial submarine flag up at a local auction and I have managed to find out what a lot of the symbolism means except for the red stitched diagonal and x lines on some of the kill bars. The real mystery is what sub did it belong to. There was a hand stitched name tag on the back but it has torn off except for Hms Tr..... .The stitches remaining suggest the name is quite long ,8 letters or more perhaps but that is just a guess.
Are there any sub experts out there that could help.Many thanks .I know its a long shot but always worth a try.:) Cheers in advance Andrew

Cribyn 22-03-18 08:52 PM

Hello Andrew

Fascinating piece of history. Possibly from a WW2 T Class submarine, plenty of possible candidates beginning with 'Tr'''' - HMS Truculent, Trespasser, Truncheon, Trooper, Traveller, Tribune, Triton, Triumph, Trident and so on.

If you trace their individual histories you might be able to narrow it down a bit! For instance, Triton and Triumph were probably sunk/lost relatively early to have claimed that many kills. Good luck!

Roger

Nozzer 22-03-18 09:25 PM

Very nice and not easy to come by. I think you should contact the Submarine museum in Gosport for advice.

yorkstone 22-03-18 09:28 PM

A very Rare and I use that term lightly agree with above contact the museum.

Regards

Stephen

Ray6930 24-03-18 08:13 AM

Kill bars
 
Could they signify damaged and sunk respectively? Simplistic, pure guess.
Ray

Wooffy 24-03-18 11:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
This might help decode the flag - and in turn help identify the actual sub.

macandpud 24-03-18 02:54 PM

Sub flag
 
Many thanks to everyone for their help. I shall get down to the submarine museum this summer and see what i can findrewnd out.All the best.A

billy 01-05-18 06:30 PM

Naval Historians Findings
 
2 Attachment(s)
Here is the findings of a Naval Historian a friend of Andy Bendford an ex Naval Submarine Commander, whom I asked advice on the Jolly Roger, here are his friends (Naval Historian) findings and they take an unexpected twist, I hope you can read them as I don't know how to import Emails so took a screenshot, hopefully they work all the best Billy

manchesters 01-05-18 06:42 PM

There is one in Bosleys July auction. Interesting to see what it goes for.

reagrds

alan g 01-05-18 06:56 PM

Last one made 14k but had some interesting history
Alan

Luke H 02-05-18 12:14 AM

Not wanting to sound like a cynic but has the question been asked if people make reproductions or even fakes of these? Was there any tangible provenance with it in the auction?

They’re desirable on novelty factor alone even to non militaria collectors. And if they can sell for thousands that’s another potential motive to make one.

Bit convenient the only rip on the whole flag practically obliterates the ships name apart from HMS Tr****. Which would be enough to suggest T-Class subs to a buyer.

Even with expected over-claiming of kills/actions it does seem a lot gun actions and torpedoes fired (if Billy’s friend is correct) considering she was an escort carrier and wasn’t operational until September 1943 and seems to have spent better part of 5 months in 1944 out of action following a collision with a frigate.

Obviously it could all be co-incidence. My tuppence worth.

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chr...VE-Tracker.htm

Cheers,
Luke

Phil2M 02-05-18 10:16 AM

1 Attachment(s)
An example from the museum at Gosport. I neglected to take down any details, there are a few on display.

Phil2M 02-05-18 10:23 AM

Billy's email seems to sum it up quite nicely

macandpud 02-05-18 02:13 PM

Dear Billy. Many thanks for the fascinating research. I never knew that other vessels made up these flags. you learn something new every day. Please give my thanks and best wishes to your friend for his efforts. it looks like it will remaion a mistery but looks really good on my wall. All the best Andrew.

grenadierguardsman 02-05-18 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macandpud (Post 438801)
I picked this unofficial submarine flag up at a local auction and I have managed to find out what a lot of the symbolism means except for the red stitched diagonal and x lines on some of the kill bars. The real mystery is what sub did it belong to. There was a hand stitched name tag on the back but it has torn off except for Hms Tr..... .The stitches remaining suggest the name is quite long ,8 letters or more perhaps but that is just a guess.
Are there any sub experts out there that could help.Many thanks .I know its a long shot but always worth a try.:) Cheers in advance Andrew

Its an impressive piece.
Andy


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