17th/21st Lancers Motto
 

Hi all,

not had much opportunity to do much 'badgey' stuff recently, but I did buy a small group of assorted badges a couple of days ago (mainly for an RAF cap badge as a pressie for the father-in-law) that included this 17th/21st Lancers Motto.

It's in fairly good nick apart from a missing slider and seems similar-looking to several others I've seen posted here and elsewhere, but this one is quite noticeably 'domed' rather than being generally flat.

So, apart from a general question as to whether it's a real one rather than a fake/copy, do people think this is just the result of a bit of over-enthusiastic shaping to sit on a beret or sidecap or something else?

Cheers,
Kevin

Hi Kevin

The Motto looks good to me. have a look at the edges of the skull, they appear to have "ears" which indicates an early issue and with a slider I'd put it at about pre WW1

Sorry, but Im back again.

Yes the additional photos are good and clearly show the ears, they can be seen beside the eye sockets. So Id say pre WW! and therefore 17th Lancers.

Others are better at picking the die varieties and are able to work out a maker without a mark but sorry I cant, maybe Griff will come on and help out here.

Regards

Phil..

Thank you very much for that - so, if it were to be pre First World War, then it would be purely 17th Lancers, I presume?

I've come across the term 'ears' before in relation to the Motto, but never quite understood what it referred to (I dig up quite a few of the real thing, so I'm probably a bit too used to the anatomical reality to make the connection).

Do these additional shots cast any more light?


Kevin

Cap Motto
 

Hello Kevin

I have a slightly different view of your Motto than Phil, not that I entirely disagree with him.

I'd suggest this could be either 17L or 17/21L, but I'd favour 17/21L. This is based on my references and examples held in my collection.

I also notice the finish of your 'Motto' around the edges does not appear to be that good. If that is so, it would suggest a later Motto, as earlier ones were in general well finished and better quality.

With regards to so called 'Ears' every Cap & Collar Motto I have, has these, some ears are more pronounced than others granted, but IMO I do not consider these as a reliable form of dating.

Its also worth bearing in mind that 'Motto's' worn by 17L prior to the 1922 amalgamation would have continued to be worn in the 17L Squadrons of the 17/21L until the late 1920's, and indeed after as the adopted universal insignia of the 17/21L.

I'd be interested to hear, as Phil suggested, Griff's view on this, which I hope he will post, or indeed anyone else who can contribute to this thread.

Regards
Rob

Thanks Rob - again, much appreciated.

To be honest, I'm just pleased it seems to have passed the 'it's a real one' test, as it was bought from the eBay equivalent of a jumble sale, partially hidden amongst snow-globes & doll's house furniture... :rolleyes:

Your observation about it being a little coarse around the edges is spot on, but for a couple of quid, I can't grumble :)


Cheers,

Kevin

Post 1946 17th/21st Lancers .....Gaunt.

Thank you very much for that - to be honest, it didn't feel 'old' (if you get what I mean), so that's more in line with my expectations.


Cheers to everyone who contributed - much appreciated!

Kevin

Griff

Thank you for the clarification on the Motto. Its removed a few question marks from motto's of mine and I suspect has helped others as well.

Rob