Irish Guards date?
 

One here for Andy really I guess, but can this Irish Guards be WW1 era?

In my belief the oddity slidered Irish, Scots and Coldstream Guards cohort of badges are of WW1 manufacture.

Thanks again Luke, my thoughts too. Fiver at Thetford this morning.

The Irish Guards badge wore WO Pattern 5032/1900 with loops.

I'm still searching for the date BUT the Irish Guards wore FSH badges in Egypt in 1936 but these had two loops


The Welsh Guards had a slider when wearing FSH

A bargain mate.
Andy

Yes, I thank that most slidered gilding metal Guards badges were made for the collector’s market, and aren’t original issue.

I would suspect it might be the contemporary replacement badge canteen market as they have age to them.

This belonged to my grandfather who put his collection together in the 1940s. He also has a WG on a slider but that is the norm for the WG badges of that period.

Really Toby ?
Andy

Yes I agree Alan. I tend to think of that as largely post National Service (1960).

Yes definitely. The War Office/MOD issue followed the strict specifications, which were for loops, not sliders. The likes of Julian Bowsher and Peter Brydon (plus others) have done a lot of research in various archives and museums on this, and then discussed their findings in this forum in past decades.

Toby, I thought sliders came into use in about early 1900 ? I have somewhere letters from Grenadier Guards, I think to Gaunt or some other badge maker, stating that they wanted to change from sliders to lugs. As the slidered grenade didn't sit correctly. Also I have been given some items from a friend of the family, of a Grenadier Guardsman, shoulder titles and a slidered Grenade. The grenade having 14 flames.
Andy

To be honest I can’t remember all of the full details Andy. I do recall very clearly that the first current style (size, etc.) badges for the Line were on Field Service Caps and for Foot Guards were on the final Guards pattern of pillbox style forage cap. That was around 1898. Then for the Guards in 1900 came their own special pattern of what for the Line’s subsequent equivalent later became known as the Brodrick, but was really just a universal forage cap. The Guards didn’t require a new fixing as holes were positioned in the cap as required, but the Line did need a new fixing for their cap because it was so different to the FSC (remember they had originally used collar badges in these). So the line had sliders and the Guards still had loops. It wasn’t until 1905 and the issue of peaked forage caps that the slider was modified for the Line to reposition it on the cap, if I recall correctly. The Guards simply positioned their looped badge where they required it, which was noticeably higher up the front of the cap, as it still is today. That remained the situation in 1914. I think that Julian Bowsher probably still has the dates and specification numbers if he can dig them out.

My Gren Guards on slider - different die to the collectors issue . . .

That style of Grenade fired proper is the most common version, but not the original shape used. Here is the original pattern. Note - no sliders.