H.M.S. Cap tally
 

Hello all, can you tell me what period this cap tally is from? I know these are hard to date but any advice is appreciated.

I was told that no HMS cap tallies were used after 1945 but I read a post on here from another member that said they were still being used in 1982 so I'm not sure.

The tally is being sold with a HMS Hermes (launched 1953-59) tally which also makes me unsure on this one, the "H.M.S" doesn't look very worn like most pre-45 that I have seen too.. Pictures of HMS tally are below!

https://i.imgur.com/Icu3zH7.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/kw1sD0P.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/TLq2yTJ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ssYpvnV.jpg

I believe the Sea Cadets used the HMS tallies until the '80s.
Not sure about this example though but it maybe be SC rather than WWII.
Cheers,
Alex

Cheers for the information Alex. Ok, hopefully will get more opinions :)

Hi, I cant give a particular answer on the date of this tally but it is true that they were (supposedly) used in the 1982 Falklands conflict by RN crews on Merchant ships taken up from trade (STUFTs) in particular the trawlers Pict, Northella, Junella and one other whose name escapes me, these vessels were entirely crewed by RN personal and temporally became ships of the Royal Navy. I have in my collection a number of these tallies in batches of 10 bound in brown paper and stamped Royal William Yard Plymouth 1978.


I also believe these were worn by sailors under sentence in the Portsmouth RN Detention Quarters, as for the sea cadets, certainly not something I ever saw in the Sea Cadet Corps with whom I was a cadet long before 1980, it is possible they were at some time used by cadets in the Volunteer Cadet Corps or even Combined Cadet Corps. Best person to ask on cap tallies is Nozzer, he a bit of a cap tally guru!


Regards

Tony

Thanks sailorbear for the additional info. I have sent Nozzer a PM.

If it helps, here is the picture of the back. I have a feeling it isn't pre-1945 but hopefully someone can give an answer :)

https://i.imgur.com/fLpbbP1.jpg

H.M.S. Cap Tally
 

I can confirm that HMS cap tallys were used during the Falklands Conflict on the deep sea trawlers which were taken into use as deep sea minesweepers. Although they were given the prefix 'HMS', i.e. H.M.S. Northella, no cap tallys were produced for them. The crews were instead issued with H.M.S. tallys.

Large stocks of these were held in naval stores and since the closure of many establishments and victualling yards in the 1990s thousands of these have come onto the market.

I can also confirm that ratings sentenced to a period in the Royal Naval Detention Quarters at Portsmouth (now the Royal Marines School of Music) were issued with H.M.S. tallys for the duration of their stay.

And the Sea Cadets have never used H.M.S. tallys as they are not part of the Royal Navy, despite their officers holding commissions in the RNR.

I know that none of this actually helps to date your example but hopefully it is of some use! I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of HMS tallys found are post-war.

Pete

Thanks Guzzman. It's ok, hopefully this thread will be of use to someone else in the future as well who has the same question if they use the search feature.

This one is probably post-war then, well.. Its in very good condition if its a pre-45 piece! Hopefully Nozzer will reply :p

I recently had a war time HMS tally, now given over to Nozzer for his collection. It was very different in construction to your example.

Hi Phil,
Yes, I believe the one I have posted is not WW2 so I won't go for it. Hopefully Nozzer can share some info and a picture of a period one then I will know what to look for.

Cheers , Will.

HMS
 

Attached see image of the example I have had for years. Unworn, the colour of the HMS is subdued. The stitching has the appearance of interlinked chain. Also unknown vintage.
Cheers.
Len

See Time Capsule Thread above.Top Talley on this thread looks no earlier than 1980,s to me.

Pete,
you state that the trawlers Pict, Northella, Junella and Cordella had no cap tallies made.
I have examples of all of these...are they fakes or were they made after the conflict for the "sailing home" event?

Thanks in advance,
Paul

Hi Paul

No tallies were made for the trawlers used for minesweeping in the Falklands. The reason for this was quite simple - there simply wasn't time and there were more important things to do!

I have seen the HMS tallies you refer to (I've actually got an H.M.S. Northella tally somewhere) but they are not official issue.

All the trawlers were returned to their owners upon their return from the Falklands. However in 1983 Northella returned to work with the Royal Navy when she was converted into a Navigational Training Ship. But she remained MV Northella NOT HMS Northella and she flew the Blue Ensign (signifying government service) rather than the White Ensign. She continued in this role until 1998. The only time that she (and the other trawlers) bore the prefix H.M.S. was when they were commissioned as minesweepers during the Falklands War. And, as stated earlier, their crews were issued with H.M.S. tallies.

Pete