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-   -   Cavalry regts wearing brodricks. (https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62390)

Alan O 07-06-17 11:02 AM

Cavalry regts wearing brodricks.
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have been looking into cavalry headdress circa 1902-10 and often only officers (and sometimes bandsman) wore peaked caps in the first decade of the C20th century as many cavalry regts continued to wear badgeless pill box caps even after they were supposed to have ceased wearing them c.1903.

However as ever there were some Cavalry regts who did adopt the Brodrick cap.

Can any one provide photographic evidence of cavalry regts wearing the Brodrick?

I will start with 13th and the 17th Lancers dating from 1903/4.

(courtesy of IBEW and GWF respectively)

The QDG website records the wearing of the cap by the KDG from 1903 and the 2 DG (The Bays) from 1908.

'In 1903 the KDG were issued with the much-disliked Broderick cap, and the much-prized Victorian pill-box forage cap was discontinued. The Broderick cap was of blue cloth, round in shape with a projecting rim, but with no peak; it was worn with a chinstrap, and the metal regimental badge of the Austrian double-headed eagle on a red background in the centre at the front. On their return to England in 1908 the Bays were issued with a blue Broderick cap, with the regimental badge on a white patch at the front - the patch later being changed to light buff.' http://www.qdg.org.uk/pages/Uniform-1843-Onwards-81.php

The wearing of Brodrick was by no means universal and generally confined to the UK (although I believe that it may have made it to some Infantry in South Africa from at least one set of photos). Officers, SNCOs and sometimes bandsmen wore peaked caps even before the change over by the rest of the ORs circa 1906. Also those regts in India etc wore the Indian pattern side cap.

GriffMJ 07-06-17 11:46 AM

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...p?albumid=2081

Alan O 07-06-17 11:55 AM

Thanks so also photos for the

11th Hussars.
21st Lancers.

Alan

Robthereiver 08-06-17 06:25 AM

2D - GREYS
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hello

Another Brodrick in wear.

I suspect more Cavalry Regiments than we might think wore the Brodrick Cap as much as it was disliked. Its just a case of finding the photo's.

Good idea this thread Alan, maybe it will shed more light on this subject.

Regards
Rob

mac mcconnell 08-06-17 06:51 AM

21st Lancers
 
Theres a couple of pictures of 21st Lancers in the Regiment Magazine (Lancer special addition) issue 47 wearing it.

Mac

GriffMJ 08-06-17 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robthereiver (Post 408315)
Hello

Another Brodrick in wear.

I suspect more Cavalry Regiments than we might think wore the Brodrick Cap as much as it was disliked. Its just a case of finding the photo's.

Good idea this thread Alan, maybe it will shed more light on this subject.

Regards
Rob

I suspect that image to be an infanteer and not 17th Lancer Rob.... I too initially thought it was the 17th ...but I now think its "Mounted Infantry".... not true Cavalry.

Paul Spellman 08-06-17 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robthereiver (Post 408315)
Hello

Another Brodrick in wear.

I suspect more Cavalry Regiments than we might think wore the Brodrick Cap as much as it was disliked. Its just a case of finding the photo's.

Good idea this thread Alan, maybe it will shed more light on this subject.

Regards
Rob

Could his Cap Badge be Somerset Light Infantry ???
Paul

wardog 08-06-17 01:28 PM

I think Yeomanry carried the rifle that way pre Great War. I don't know if mounted infantry did. He has though his putties wound the infantry way. No sign of sword scabbard showing under the horse, though I think Yeomanry were trained to fight on foot pre war. Regards, Paul.

Robthereiver 08-06-17 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GriffMJ (Post 408319)
I suspect that image to be an infanteer and not 17th Lancer Rob.... I too initially thought it was the 17th ...but I now think its "Mounted Infantry".... not true Cavalry.

You are quite right its certainly not 17L Griff , its 2nd Dragoons RSG (as I posted).
A lcpl in khaki, probably in Egypt or South Africa, mounted on his splendid Grey Troop horse, wearing a Brodrick with his Eagle and scroll Cap Badge in place.
You are quite entitled to your opinion of it being 'Mounted Infantry' of course, but I think if you, with your specialist skills, investigate this photo properly you will find it ain't. IMHO its Cav!

I also believe this image is in a reference book somewhere but I can't recall which one, when or if I do I will clarify.

Cheers
Rob

GriffMJ 08-06-17 04:01 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Rob

I have only ever seen that image without reference.... so if you have it as recorded 2DG then I am corrected. I think Gordon and I had a conversation about it some years ago and came to that conclusion .... mainly because of how the puttees were worn... believe it or not.

I would love to see a better image of it if you have it?

Alan O 08-06-17 08:07 PM

Scots Greys were in SA up to 1905 before returning to the UK so it's a SA picture rather than Egypt.

wardog 08-06-17 09:49 PM

Hello Rob. I had not noted your image title. The other use of greys could be a trumpeter-but no trumpet. Was this method of carrying a rifle common with cavalry? Regards, Paul.

Robthereiver 09-06-17 06:21 PM

Hello

I have to admit I had not scrutinised this image, and as Griff and others have quite rightly pointed out there are anomalies such as the way the puttees are worn, which put doubt on my assertion that this is a cavalry man.

I have to say that in Griff's close-up image the cap badge does IMO look like a RSG's one, but that said, I also noticed a further anomaly in that the shoulder title does appear to have three letters or digits, 2D is what I would expect, or is this an unofficial RSG? as the wearing of unofficial titles and other insignia is not exactly unheard of when Cav. Regt's are serving overseas.

I cannot for the life of me find the reference I had/have which attributed this image to the 2nd Dragoons RSG, though I'm still looking.

I have, in view of the doubts these anomalies have raised, I have contacted the Regimental museum in Edinburgh to ask if they could verify if indeed this is 2D RSG.
I'll keep you all posted.

Rob

Robthereiver 09-06-17 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wardog (Post 408446)
Hello Rob. I had not noted your image title. The other use of greys could be a trumpeter-but no trumpet. Was this method of carrying a rifle common with cavalry? Regards, Paul.

Hello Paul

Valid points.

Use of Grey Troop horses in the British cavalry by all accounts was limited for the use as you say of a Trumpeter's mount or perhaps a Drum horse, which would normally be a heavier breed. Alternatively, the regiment the Royal Scots Greys.
There would be Officers that might have a Grey Charger as I believe Winston Churchill did at some time in his career, but they drew attention and were not generally favoured by Officers.

Regarding the rifle bucket, still checking on Cav. Use but it was certainly used by the Yeomanry and Mounted Infantry.....another anomaly perhaps? Shot myself in the foot here I can see it Oops! we live and learn.

I'll let you know if/when I find out more.

Cheers
Rob

Alan O 09-06-17 07:22 PM

Horse deaths were so great in SA that the use of specific colour of horses was not possible. The volume of horses sent to the Boer War was massive so they rode what they could get.


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