thoughts on this colour patch
 

hi all
what are the thoughts on this colour patch?
I know its service corps of some type, but what period do you think it is?
bc

Rotate it 90- degrees anti-clockwise and its' a 2AIF patch - 8 Aust Div AASC. Mike

Hi mike
Thanks for the reply.
It certainly looks ww2 however it was the property of a distant relative who served in ww1.
12941 Archie Glen Gunner 3rd Div train Enlisted 18/4/16 RTA 23/6/19 embarking with the AASC.
This patch is with his WW1 medals, Spurs, some other leather kit all dated 1914/15/16 and heaps of photos and docs.
It is the families understanding that he never served in WW2 due to his age and being in an essential service. I also couldn’t find any ww2 activity. So could this be ww1 patch modified in some way?
I think it’s silk.
Anyway, interested in your thoughts
BC

Given what you say it must be 3 Aust Div AASC, but why has it acquired a border? Since it's not apparently made of felt, perhaps it was made up by the family on his return to Australia in order to be part of a medal etc display? Mike

Hi mike
Yes I’m guessing the same. I don’t have it in my possession at the moment. Will get it along with all the other items at Christmas. What they say is that it feels like silk which is the wrong material for ww2 but as you say the border has thrown me.
Cheers
BC

It looks to me to have a kd? uniform remnant as a backing.

If it was a 2AIF patch it should have a grey border

thanks again for the reply.
yes you may be right.
thanks
bc

Sorry, Mike -- WW1 AIF patches were never made of felt! They were usually made out of a light broadcloth material, and by the look of this one, I'd say it's about right for WW1. The background appears to be added afterwards, and isn't the 2nd AIF battleship grey background. WW2 patches were manufactured in both felt and cloth.

G'day BC

I had a look at the WW 1 colour patch chart today whilst volunteering at the local RSL museum.

To me its a 3rd Div ASC patch and is worn horozontal with the blue on top. Sorry I cant explain the backing, but that seems to be hand stitched where as if it was a WW 2 patch the stitching would have been done by machine.

Regards

Phil.

hi phil
i believe you are correct re it being a 3rd Div ASC patch and is worn horozontal with the blue on top.

i always believed there were never any borders on ww1 colour patches. well certainly not like the grey of ww2 however heres an interesting patch on a ww1 uniform in the war memorial collection.
what are your thoughts

http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/REL28771/
bc

Hi BC, I have had a look at the photo and dont know why it looks to have a backing on the colour patch. I have saved the photo and will print it out and compare it to the colour patch chart at the RSL's museum on Thursday and will get back to you, eventually, Im just a little busy for the next week or so.

Regards

Phil.

Hi BC

Sorry to take a while to get back on this one, and I have since come across this photo whilst searching on line for other info.

First things first, this colour patch was not on the museums chart but Dr Google provided the answer, It states that it is/was 5th Divisional Ammunition Column, Royal Field Artillery, that should be Royal Australian Artillery.

Re the small out line around the colour patch, my suggestion is as follows.

The battle dress jacket is of the first pattern with a waist belt and a tounge and buckle. The toung and buckle were later done away with.

However, the origonal jackets had flat 4 hole buttons. This jacket has domed metal buttons, so its a later jacket.

The jacket shows 4 service chevrons on the right sleeve, however this is a brand new jacket, it hasnt seen 4 years hard service on the western front.

Therefore I'd say that the badges have been taken off an origonal jacket and attached to a new jacket for display purposes and when the colour patch was taken off, the sleeve was cut rather than the badge being unstitched and this gives it a border, as its clearly a WW 1 vintage uniform.

l hope that this helps, keep the discussion going.

Regards

Phil.

patch
 

Phil,

Glyde show this patch as being either 3rd Di. with the white both up and down and 6th Div the way the it is in post one. All for Div. trains.

Did he get it wrong?

John

It may be noted that in 3 Div patches from WW1 the colour patch is issued stitched to an oval broadcloth backing. This is particularly prevalent in 3 Div arty patches. For those who have a copy of The 7th FAB Yandoo, check p37 of Vol III which has three photos of men in which this practice can clearly be see.
I did have one example (arty) in my collection and have a photo of a SD jacket still in the possession of the wearer's family (3 Div TM btys) where the patch is on an oval khaki backing.

It appears to be a common practice for 3 Aust Div artillery patches of WW1 to be manufactured and issued with a khaki serge backing identical to the one on this 3 Div AASC patch.

I had one (arty) in my own collection and have a photo of a tunic still in the possession of the family of a 3 Div trench mortar btys fellow with this backing.

If you look at the photos in the roll of honour in Vol 3 of the 7th FA Brigade Yandoo, page 37 I think, at least three of the men pictured are clearly wearing 3 Div arty patches on backings. This was identical to the patch I had which I must admit I originally thought had been added on, although the patch itself was definitely original.

This AASC patch is the first non-arty 3 Div one I have seen but I did have a 3 Army Bde AFA patch with a very coarse khaki backing which was not uniform material. That patch itself was not the fine broadcloth you see in Army Clothing Department patches,it was also coarse.

I do have a scan of this latter but not sure what I'm doing in the uploading process coz the file size exceeds the site's size restrictions. I'll work on it.