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    Conductor Badges?

    Can anyone provide positive identification and information on these badges, are they RAOC Conductor Badges?

    20170425_111208 (002).jpg

    #2
    I would say probably Master Gunner rather than RAOC conductor, I can't think why any RAOC conductor would wear anything other than the badge with the red ring around.
    There was also Staff Sergeant Majors RASC and Pay Masters RAPC, but I'm betting on RA Master Gunner.
    However there are a couple of proper experts on here that will nail it down for you.
    Cheers
    Sean

    Comment


      #3
      sapper is bang on that Conductors, Staff Sergeant Majors and Master Gunners all wore/wear the same coat of arms within a laurel wreath. In SD pattern, as here, the difference only lies in slight differences in coloration of the woven aspects. The maroon colour makes me wonder if this could be a RAMC, or Veterinary badge. Quite a number of specialist corps had SSMs for a time, but I cannot recall the full list of who they were.
      Last edited by Toby Purcell; 25-04-17, 09:35 PM.

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        #4
        They look like a copy of the early 1957 pattern badges that have a distinctive scarlet (looks maroon) coloured scroll and the colour green in the Irish quarter of the shield, which briefly followed on from the 1945 pattern badges.

        Marc
        I am still looking for the Army Formation sleeve badges from the Sultanate of Oman.

        Comment


          #5
          In the ASC/RASC it is 'First Class, Staff Sergeant Major' that wore the Royal Arms in Wreath. Staff Sergeants Majors (SSM) wore the Royal Arms only as did Sub Conductors RAOC.

          The first reference to Royal Arms in Wreath with Coloured Border was not until c1951 but were not produced till 1953

          There were 5 Conductor/ SSM 1 Class Appointments

          Conductor AOC (Became Conductor RAOC then RLC)
          First Class, Staff Sargeant Major ASC (Supply functions RASC merged into RAOC in 1965 and merged with Conductor RAOC in 1967)
          Master Gunner, First Class RA
          First Class, Staff Sargeant Major APC (Became a commissioned rank)
          Schoolmaster, 1st Class AEC (Became a commissioned rank)

          RAMC was not among them.
          Sua Tela Tonanti

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Mike_2817 View Post
            In the ASC/RASC it is 'First Class, Staff Sergeant Major' that wore the Royal Arms in Wreath. Staff Sergeants Majors (SSM) wore the Royal Arms only as did Sub Conductors RAOC.

            The first reference to Royal Arms in Wreath with Coloured Border was not until c1951 but were not produced till 1953

            There were 5 Conductor/ SSM 1 Class Appointments

            Conductor AOC (Became Conductor RAOC then RLC)
            First Class, Staff Sargeant Major ASC (Supply functions RASC merged into RAOC in 1965 and merged with Conductor RAOC in 1967)
            Master Gunner, First Class RA
            First Class, Staff Sargeant Major APC (Became a commissioned rank)
            Schoolmaster, 1st Class AEC (Became a commissioned rank)

            RAMC was not among them.
            Thank you, Mike, for that comprehensive rundown of appointments and changes, very useful. I wonder which of the appointments that you listed wore subject badge. Perhaps the apparent maroon is a discoloured scarlet, as suggested above.

            Comment


              #7
              I have no idea and have never seen a coloured scroll example of this badge before so have no idea who it was for.

              I have a few examples of these 'Battle Dress' rank badges, 2 with 'Kings' Crown and 2 with 'Queens' Crowns and I have never really got a date when the coloured borders actually came in use but think c1960 with the introduction of No2 Dress/Officers Service Dress?

              I have a large Royal Arms in Wreath c1965 worn by a former RASC 1st Class SSM on transfer to the RAOC

              I also have a strange one which I think was produced in India?
              Attached Files
              Sua Tela Tonanti

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mike_2817 View Post
                I have no idea and have never seen a coloured scroll example of this badge before so have no idea who it was for.

                I have a few examples of these 'Battle Dress' rank badges, 2 with 'Kings' Crown and 2 with 'Queens' Crowns and I have never really got a date when the coloured borders actually came in use but think c1960 with the introduction of No2 Dress/Officers Service Dress?

                I have a large Royal Arms in Wreath c1965 worn by a former RASC 1st Class SSM on transfer to the RAOC

                I also have a strange one which I think was produced in India?
                Yes, I am confident that the various coloured badges were issued in line with the then new No2 Dress in the 1960s and I recall seeing a page from MATREGS (Clothing), listing them. I just don't have a copy. The strange badge does have a strange look and might well have come from India. There were two Army Clothing Factories there set up by the British, one in Alipore and one in Madras. They continued in operation after partition and I imagine that there were old stocks to get rid of.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Not to be out done here are some of mine.
                  Cheers
                  Sean
                  Attached Files

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Some RAOC/RLC ones
                    Attached Files

                    Comment


                      #11
                      And what I always thought was Staff Sergeant Major 1st Class RASC with a yellow ring is now considered not to be.
                      What do members think to it being PAy Master RAPC .........primrose ring?

                      The wire embroidered are almost definitely RASC No 1 Dress and Mess Kit QC
                      Attached Files

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Yellow circle worsted khaki. Staff Sergeant Major (1st Class), RAC, RASC & RAPC pattern number 14605 catalogue number CB 2251, 1945.
                        Badge resealed in 1951 as CB 2493, same pattern used annotated for the circle to be Red CB 2492 and Scarlet CB 2937, and crowns to be St. Edward's.

                        White background wire embroidered. Staff Sergeant Major (1st Class), 17/21 Lancers, 13/18 Royal Hussars, Prince of Wales Own, RASC & RCT, pattern number 19376, catalogue number CB 6434 later NSN CB 8455-99-973-9286.

                        Marc
                        I am still looking for the Army Formation sleeve badges from the Sultanate of Oman.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I never imagined that there could be so many variety of a badge, its so interesting.

                          I only need one for my collection, so if anyone is interested in adding one of my badges to their collection, let me know and I will get it in the mail to you.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for that Marc.
                            But I'm surprised that The RAC and the RAPC had Staff Sergeant Majors 1st Class this is new to me, I get that Warrant Officers Class One wore Royal Arms with a yellow border but did they really wear the round badge?

                            The same goes for the wire embroidered on white, yes WO1's in those regiments wore the Royal Arms. badge but I'm sure the round badge with wreath was only worn by the RASC out of those you list

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I do not think the RAC or RAPC ever wore the Royal Arms in Wreath as Paymasters & Schoolmasters became commissioned rank before the introduction of badge, and the RAC never wore them. I think you mean Royal Arms with Yellow border.

                              I think the Royal Arms in Wreath with Yellow Border was indeed meant to be for the First Class, Staff Sergeant Major RASC but was never used for that purpose.

                              Here are a few more examples of badge.

                              Issue Rank Slide for 1990 Pattern DPM Combats with front Rank Slide
                              Anodised aluminium on leather wrist strap for shirt sleeve order
                              Attached Files
                              Sua Tela Tonanti

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