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  #1  
Old 03-02-10, 03:38 PM
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Default 4/7th Royal Dragoon Guards Special Embelishment

I wonder whether anyone can help with this.
Is there any significance in the 2 versions of the 2 types shown apart from the fact that the silk versions may be for full dress or mess dress?
fyi - the the two at the top feel like silk, the ones at the bottom are a fine cotton. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-10, 04:36 PM
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Default 4/7RDG D Day Flash

Quote:
Originally Posted by wright241 View Post
I wonder whether anyone can help with this.
Is there any significance in the 2 versions of the 2 types shown apart from the fact that the silk versions may be for full dress or mess dress?
fyi - the the two at the top feel like silk, the ones at the bottom are a fine cotton. Thanks.
Hi Dave

To the best of my knowledge the D Day flash was only worn initially on Battledress and later on No 2 Dress by the 4/7RDG. Today it is only worn on No 2 Dress by The Royal Dragoon Guards.

These are all 4/7 RDG and date from 1960-1980. I believe the differences in style arise from various manufacturers.

Best wishes

Gordon
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  #3  
Old 08-02-10, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 1stTankie View Post
Hi Dave

To the best of my knowledge the D Day flash was only worn initially on Battledress and later on No 2 Dress by the 4/7RDG. Today it is only worn on No 2 Dress by The Royal Dragoon Guards.

These are all 4/7 RDG and date from 1960-1980. I believe the differences in style arise from various manufacturers.

Best wishes

Gordon
Gordon,
Star. Many thanks. I thought it might have been a period change rather than a manufacturing one.
rgds, david
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Old 08-02-10, 11:24 PM
Wyn vdSchee Wyn vdSchee is offline
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I collect, inter alia, badges of The Fort Garry Horse, allied with the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards. I would be interested in knowing the significance of the flash being discussed in this thread.
Wyn
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  #5  
Old 09-02-10, 12:15 AM
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From the newsletter of the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon guards newsletter (available on line here http://www.creullyclub.freeuk.com/frameset.htm issue 13)

replies (by Ian Gill and Alastair Morrison and others) to a question posted in issue 12 . I quote...

Ian Gill - Members of the Regiment may have seen an article in the 'Regiment' magazine (issue 34, page 14) entitled D-Day
Flash - this is a fanciful narrative concerning the flash worn on our uniform jacket and (I quote) "awarded to all regiments landing in the first assault on D-Day".

I had no idea how this account of regimental dress gained a foothold in our history, but I can tell you it is absolute rubbish. So I think it best if we placed on record the true origins of the 'Regimental Flash' before it becomes enshrined in regimental folklore.

I was commanding 3rd Troop 'C' Squadron 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards when the Regiment was stationed in Northern France as part of the B.E.F. It was in the winter of 1939/40 when the Commanding Officer received an Army Order from GHQ demanding "all units in the B.E.F to remove forthwith badges of recognition from battle-dress" in order to conceal our identity and order of battle (this took some believing since units of the B.E.F were constantly being referred to by name in broadcasts from Berlin by 'Lord Haw Haw' over our own Forces Radio frequency). This done how were to recognise troops in our own regiment without the use of badges?

The Adjutant Captain (later Major General) d'Avigdor-Goldsmid suggested we should have a recognition flash made from a worsted material in the same design as the diamond flash painted in regimental colours on our steel helmets; the flash to be worn on the left sleeve of the battle-dress jacket. Some months later (IHQ (?) made it known that we could retain the use of regimental insignia after all. Back on the battle-dress jacket went the numerals and 'collar-dogs', but it was decided to leave the flash on the jacket and there it remained as an integral part of regimental dress until, many years later (1992?). it was transferred to the No 2 Dress (Service Dress) tunic.

Those in possession of Brereton's history of the 4th/7th might care to look at photo plate No 57; the two soldiers in the right front of the photograph can be seen wearing the flash on the left sleeve of their battle-dress; this photo was taken four weeks after our return from Dunkirk in July 1940; so, please no more about the 'D-Day Flash'.

Alastair Morrison - An order was received when the 4th/7th were in the B.E.F in Autumn 1939 that cap badges would NOT be worn - security given as the reason. The 4th/7th designed an arm flash for their own instant recognition, sewn on the left arm in regimental colours.

Later, I believe when the 27 Armd. Brigade was formed - 26.11.40 - the 13/18H followed suit with a blue and white flash.

Tom Tyreman - About that 'D-Day Flash', I am sure lots of chaps will have given you the right story by now, but what its worth, here's mine.

I was given them to sew on when I joined the Regiment in April 1941 - D-Day was not even a twinkle in those days.

I was told, though by whom I can't remember, that it was the colours of the Belgian flag and had been awarded to us after the Battle of Waterloo.
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  #6  
Old 09-02-10, 09:03 AM
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[QUOTE=John Mulcahy;59555]
Those in possession of Brereton's history of the 4th/7th might care to look at photo plate No 57; the two soldiers in the right front of the photograph can be seen wearing the flash on the left sleeve of their battle-dress; this photo was taken four weeks after our return from Dunkirk in July 1940; so, please no more about the 'D-Day Flash'.

John, Many thanks. I do have this book and had had a good look through the pictures. Your eyes must be in a much better state than mine, I did make out the 'flash' in this picture but didn't recognise it as such - and still can't.

Thanks, david
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Old 09-02-10, 09:59 AM
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Default 4/7RDG Flash

Hi John

Many thanks for your correction of the "D Day Flash" myth. Ian Gill was my Brigade Commander, 7th Armoured Brigade, when I was with 1RTR in Bergen Hohne in the '60s. You would have to go many a tracked mile to meet a nicer man.

I used the expression D Day Flash because it is mentioned in Lt Col Robin Hodges' book "British Army Badges" under The Royal Dragoon Guards section and therefore assumed it was common parlance in the regiment as he either visited them or they provided the information.

I hope they read posts on the Forum!
Best wishes

Gordon
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Old 09-02-10, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stTankie View Post
Hi John

Many thanks for your correction of the "D Day Flash" myth.
Gordon

Gordon

It was Wyn's post asking about the origins of the distinction that prompted me. I recalled reading it on the association site previously and as I like trying to understand the periods of wear of the insignia of the regiments that interest me I had bookmarked it for future reference.

John
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Old 22-08-14, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wright241 View Post
I wonder whether anyone can help with this.
Is there any significance in the 2 versions of the 2 types shown apart from the fact that the silk versions may be for full dress or mess dress?
fyi - the the two at the top feel like silk, the ones at the bottom are a fine cotton. Thanks.
David

to close out the question about silk versions, you may have seen Iain's question about the regimental flash. Since you first posted this question I have obtained a copy of The Dress Distinctions of the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards Langridge's Military Publications (Langridge) 1961. The author references the silk thread version and the worsted version.

The scan below shows what the difference between silk and worsted was in 1961 - merely a construction technique difference not a difference in order of dress. I can't answer for practices after 1961.

John
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  #10  
Old 22-08-14, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mulcahy View Post
David

to close out the question about silk versions, you may have seen Iain's question about the regimental flash. Since you first posted this question I have obtained a copy of The Dress Distinctions of the 4th/7th Royal Dragoon Guards Langridge's Military Publications (Langridge) 1961. The author references the silk thread version and the worsted version.

The scan below shows what the difference between silk and worsted was in 1961 - merely a construction technique difference not a difference in order of dress. I can't answer for practices after 1961.

John
Many thanks John - I'll keep that text in my embellishment book
Rgds, David
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