Royal Irish Rifles QVC (FS cap)

[Leonard D]

Hello Chaps, I wonder if any of the Irish collectors on the Forum would be able to confirm whether or not the badge at caption was issued and if so, what to look for in a genuine example.
Any assistance in this regard would be much appreciated.
Cheers!
Len.

[2747andy]

Len,
if it looks like this then it is okay!

http://www.sellmymilitaria.com/site/...dge&Itemid=477


Andy

[Alan O]

It was also the collar badge.

[John Mulcahy]

Len

A cap badge for the Field Cap and FSH for other ranks of the Royal Irish Rifles was certainly approved, issued and worn.

The first pattern was The "Maid of Erin" Harp with Victorian Crown with a downward curved scroll with swallow tailed ends folded behind and upwards at 45° to touch the lower sides of the Harp, and embossed "QUIS SEPARABIT".

Sealed on 29/3/98 with the description "Badge Field Cap & Foreign Service Helmet all ranks bronze, first pattern" It was given sealed pattern number 4633/1898. The reference of the document approving the badge is ACD Patterns 9196 39/3/98 and the above is recorded in the RACD list of changes Vol 9 page 55.

As indicated the badge was blackened brass and is approx 42 cm high. It is misdescribed in Churchill as a collar badge.

It was superseded by pattern 4633 which changed to a Tudor Crown - sealed on 07/01/1902 (this badge is not shown in Kipling & King). An example of that is shown as the second attachment (sorry for the poor image on this one)

I have not seen it faked personally others may have more onservations on this. Images are below.

John

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Alan O

It was also the collar badge.

Alan

Other ranks of The Royal Irish Rifles did not wear collar badges until after the Royal Ulster Rifles entered the North Irish Brigade when SPN 18856 (shown below) was sealed for them on 03/12/1962

John

[Leonard D]

Hello Andy, my thanks, as always, for your kind assistance. The example I have appears to match the one you are offering on your site although retains more of the blackened finish. It had been languishing in the odds and sods biscuit box. Just goes to show that "good un's" can be found after a rummage through what were previously thought of as suspect. Will try a get a pic up when the light improves.
Cheers!
Len.

[Leonard D]

Hello John, I trust you are keeping well.
Appreciate you taking the time to respond with details and pics.
The one in my collection appears to be legit although in measurement closer to 40mm x 30mm. Also good to learn that this one has not fallen prey to being faked!
Once again, my thanks.
Cheers.
Len.

[Alan O]

I presumed Churchill to be correct but lots of books seem to need amendments.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Leonard D

Hello John, I trust you are keeping well.
Appreciate you taking the time to respond with details and pics.
The one in my collection appears to be legit although in measurement closer to 40mm x 30mm. Also good to learn that this one has not fallen prey to being faked!
Once again, my thanks.
Cheers.
Len.

I am well thank you, I just measured mine and its max. dimensions are 39.8 mm high x 29.3 mm wide at the maximum points. Sorry to mislead with the 42 mm approx. statement. Sounds like yours is correct as far as measurements goes.

John

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I presumed Churchill to be correct but lots of books seem to need amendments.

I generally find it to be very accurate and a fine book. On the subject of the Royal Irish Rifles it is highly inaccurate when it comes to the other ranks details.

John

[Alan O]

Bit of a contradiction there John.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Bit of a contradiction there John.

I see why you say that. To elaborate perhaps I should say that, for the other Irish regiments, what I read in Churchill lines up very well with what I find in my own research just not The R.I. Rifles.

best wishes

John

[49lassiepen]

Hi loaded up a card with an example on it in gallery and my album Having seen Andy research i now think the all brass K.C example is wrong or a blackened example cleaned

David

[Wayne Ihaka]

would the attached badge be considered a good one by the experts, as an example of the post QVC FS badge

[John Mulcahy]

That is nominally an example of pattern 5849 sealed 30/03/1903 . Re-sealed as SPN 5849a on 16/07/1907 I think with the slider moved. It is a larger badge than the first 2 FSC pattern badges, the height being increased to 50 mm. Used on the Forage cap and I assume the FSC , but am not certain of this. If used on the FSC it would have replaced pattern 4633 shown in post # 4.

It looks good to me and based on the slider position is probably representative of 5849a dating from 1907 onward. It was superseded by a WM version of the same design in 1913. Thus this badge I think dates to c. 1907 - c. 1913.

John