Staffordshire Yeomanry cap badges

[QOSY]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Jim,
I would be very interested to hear if you had any of their Staffs Yeo cap badges and what designs they are.

Welcome to the forum.

Alan

Hi Alan sorry for the delay in uploading these. I was wrong about them all being lugged, the badge on the left with slider is my grandfathers the one on the right my fathers and the top one with lugs is a collar (1930's) the white metal knot is a cap badge (c1910) the GM knot is a collar (c1914) I can upload pictures of them wearing these if required.
Jim

[QOSY]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

Jim,

Thanks for the photos - they are great. They do raise more questions in my mind particulary as the brass slidered ones are with the Queen Victoria's crown. Any idea when he wore these?

If you could post any pictures of them being worn that would be great. It is always good to get primary source confirmation rather than a second hand referenec in a book.

Thanks again.

Alan

Allan, the I have photos of them both wearing the Victorian crown badge from about 1911 through to 1939 (the yeomanry museum in Stafford shows troopers wearing the Victorian crown through the Western Dessert campaign and Normandy.)
I apologise for the quality of pictures (scanner not working!) the Left hand is my Grandfather 1915/16, center my father 1936/7, he is wearing both VC cap and collar, right hand my grandfather (center) 1910 all are wearing the white metal knot with full dress. I have another picture of him around 1912 wearing the VC cap badge and GM knot collar.I remember my father telling me in the 70's that he personally had never seen a Kings crown Yeomanry cap badge during his service.

[Alan O]

Many thanks. That does drive a coach and horses through several reference books! Gaylor mentions that the QVC badge was not worn in her lifetime but does not date it. His choice of wording is vague but implies that the brass QVC crown was worn in WW1 and as you photographs show some time beyond that. There is still some work to do to see if any date can be determined as to when the brass k/c version finally came into use. Could it be as late as post war?

As mentioned earlier I have never liked the w/m k/C (half SStaffs badges) and have not found a picture of one in use. Reading both K&K and Gaylor carefully neither mention a wm version of the crown and knot type.

Interestingly there is a famous picture of Monty in a bush hat full of badges and on it is the k/c SStaffs garter badge similiar to your q/c variant. Could this be an Officer's badge or a ORs WM version mentioned by Gaylor?

Here it is check out the front. I have added the link to the diggerhistory website so not to reproduce any of their material.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images...-hat-monty.jpg

Alan

Gaylor states that the ORs wm version of this scrolled badge was made but not generally worn. Having checked my q/c version it is Gaunt Bham marked suggesting a 1970s era badge.

[QOSY]

Alan
Pictures I have show officers wearing the scroll badge, when I showed the QC one to my father in the 70's he immediately said that it was an officers badge, but he had never actually handled one.
Jim

[Alan O]

This thread so got my interest that I just had to go and find a 'QVC' one to go with the k/c version that I already had. As the pre WW2 photographs are such a good historical record I have extracted the relevent posts and created a new one in the yeomanry section.

Alan

[Alan O]

These are my 2 Q/C versions which were unlikely to have been worn by the regt before amalgamation. Gaylor's book staes that he had both but they ' were not generally in use when the regt amalgamated in 1967'. They both feature in K&K. The wm Gaunt Bham one is perfectly struck and I imagine one of the many yeomanry badges that the frim made for the collectors' market in the 1970s. The a/a is solid backed and Firmin marked and appears to have been made by the firm. But for whom is the question? I have seen some sold by dealers for a sizable sum as 'unissued ex-MOD stock' however I would not be able to guarantee that they were not made to order for commercial sale.

How this anodised k/c one came into being is another mystery:
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...achmentid=5326

Alan

[Alan O]

For interest only I came across this page in the booklet 'Regtl badge and Service Caps' published by George Philip and Son, London 1941.

It shows the Staff Yeo full garter pattern. Unfortunately this could well be showing the Officers as it does show at least 2 regts with the Officers design instead of the ORs.

Alan

[54Bty]

Staffordshire Yeomanry

King's Crown aa silver Cat# CB 3197 pattern # 15193 16th October 1951, this pattern to be used for St. Edward's Crown.

St. Edward's Crown white metal Cat# CB 2991 sealed 8th August 1952.

St. Edward's Crown aa silver Cat# CB 3197 entered the vocab 21st August 1953, cat# kept from KC version.

'B' (Staffordshire Yeomanry) Squadron of The Mercian Yeomanry.

[Alan O]

Following on from this thread - the former 'Officers' pattern then post war ORs is shown in Regtl badge by Maj Edwards 6th Edn (1974) as being worn by the B Sqn of the Mercian Yeomanry in an Infantry role. It does state that a 'common badge is under consideration' which was introduced in a/a for all sqns later on I believe. It does not mention whether the ORs wore a metal or a/a badge.

[cbuehler]

I have a KC WM slidered version that has every appearance of being genuine and actually worn. It is not a cut off S. Staffs, has a well used bent slider and shows considerable polishing wear and the right patina, expecially on the reverse.
I find it hard to accept that it is not genuine (although possible) and would certainly appreciate further comment on these badges.

CB

[Alan O]

CB,

Depending on which book you read the w/m knot with a k/c is attributed not to the Yeomanry but to a School Officer Training Corps.

Alan

[cbuehler]

Originally Posted by Alan O

CB,

Depending on which book you read the w/m knot with a k/c is attributed not to the Yeomanry but to a School Officer Training Corps.

Alan

Aha! Thanks for that Alan. I know it to be a good badge. I dont have any book that references this to an OTC, but do you know which school it is?

CB

[dubaiguy]

Possibly Handsworth Grammar School in Birmingham. Though Handsworth was no longer in Staffordshire by the start of the first war (I think?!?), I believe the OTC used the Staffordshire knot in w/m.
Mark

[cbuehler]

Thanks Mark,
Handsworth school does indeed have the Staffs knot within their insignia, but is this the same as in Cox?

CB

[Alan O]

Yes his number 1906. His is not the most reliable book but at least it gives you somewhere to start.