Beyer Peacock & Company

[Sawstonjohn]

Hi

Has anyone come across Beyer Peacock & Company (Birmingham) as a manufacturer of badges? More famous for locomotive production, they ceased to trade around 1966.

I am interested to see if they diversified at any time in their earlier history


Thanks


John

John,

I am sure you are more than aware that there is another maker with the same initials.. Bent & Parker, examples of which are available to view in the forum's 'Makers Marks' section.

Cheers,

PJ

[Sawstonjohn]

Thanks for that Peter. However, I am not convinced Bent & Parker and the abbreviation on the slider are one and the same in the 'Makers Mark' section......

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Sawstonjohn

Hi

Has anyone come across Beyer Peacock & Company (Birmingham) as a manufacturer of badges? More famous for locomotive production, they ceased to trade around 1966.

I am interested to see if they diversified at any time in their earlier history


Thanks


John

John,
Beyer Peacock was the name of a company that made locomotives - way back.
David

[Peter Brydon]

I cannot believe that a locomotive builder would have made cap badges,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyer,_Peacock_and_Company

But I may be wrong.

P.B.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

I cannot believe that a locomotive builder would have made cap badges,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyer,_Peacock_and_Company

But I may be wrong.

P.B.

No your not. I use to make model loco's whcih is why I mentioned it.

['Ticker' Riley]

Hello John

Yes, like you I am not convinced that the slider mark “BP & Co Ld B’ham” is actually for Bent & Parker. As far as hallmarked items goes I think I’m right in saying the accepted Bent & Parker mark is “B&P”, a mark that I believe does also occur on non-hallmarked badges (I know of a Leicesters OSD with this mark in someone else’s collection, and I remember seeing something on the Forum about one for the Tank Corps as well). The fact that the ampersand comes after the “BP” in the slider mark just does not seem right to me, and neither does it look to fit with the name of the Company. According to the Birmingham trade directories I’ve looked at they were always “Bent & Parker Ltd”, no sign of “Co.”, and always with the “&” between the “Bent” and the “Parker”. This appears to be true even after the Firm was taken over by J. R. Gaunt & Son, which I think Julian (KLR) has down as being about 1918? Indeed the trade directories still show “Bent & Parker Ltd” right up until 1949, but in the one for 1950 their premises in Pemberton Street has become a warehouse under the name W. Madley & Son Ltd. I think we are actually looking at a totally different company with this “BP & Co Ld B’ham” slider mark, though I don’t think it’s necessarily Beyer Peacock & Co. because they seem to be a Manchester based firm and not a Birmingham one. I also have to agree it seems a bit of a leap from building locomotives to making cap badges! Anyway, I’ll see if I can find another possible candidate for the “BP & Co Ld” mark, as I honestly don’t think it’s Bent & Parker myself.

Best regards

Martin

[Sawstonjohn]

Martin

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. I agree that it would be most unlikely they moved to making badges but more likely that this was a small contribution to the war effort (along no doubt with many other areas of war production suited to metal related production)

However, this might be conclusive (bottom of the first page)

http://www.beyerpeacock.co.uk/150yea...years%20on.PDF

John

['Ticker' Riley]

Hi John

Many thanks for posting the link to Joe Lloyd’s short historical review of Beyer Peacock Company’s locomotive building activities, but I don’t personally see anything conclusive in this I’m afraid. Other than that the Firm became a private limited company in 1883, and then a public one in 1902, as well as the fact they are known as “BP & Co. Ltd” of course. I have to say there still doesn’t look to be any indication of a Birmingham connection here, which is clearly indicated by the slider mark in question. However I think I may have actually found the company who is represented by the mark “BP & Co Ld B’ham”.

I have now had a chance to have a quick look at three editions of Kelly’s Directory of Birmingham, for 1915, 1920 and 1928. Unfortunately I can’t access the intervening years to get a fuller picture, but what I have found is certainly suggestive and also fits with your thoughts on someone moving into badge production as a contribution to the War effort. The significant entry is in the ‘Trades & Professional’ section of the 1920 directory, where under ‘Military & Naval Ornament Manufacturers’ we find a company called “Bodill Parker & Co. Limited”, of Albion Works, Great Hampton Row. Now I would say myself that there stands a very good chance that this firm’s name could be shortened, in the same way as Beyer Peacock & Co., to BP & Co. Ltd. Further in the ‘Professional and Commercial’ section of the same 1920 Kelly’s Directory we find the following fuller entry on what this particular company made:

More interesting still is that in both Kellys’ Directory of Birmingham (Including the Suburbs and the Borough of Smethwick) for 1915 and the 1928 Kellys’ Directory of Birmingham (with its Suburbs) and Smethwick, Bodill Parker & Co. Limited do not appear under ‘Military & Naval Ornament Manufacturers’ in the relevant ‘Trades & Professional’ sections. They are, however, still to be found in the ‘Professional and Commercial’ sections with almost exactly the same descriptions of the wares they produced as that given in the 1920 directory, but with the crucial exception of not including the line about “& military & naval ornament manufacturers”. I would say that this goes well with your idea of this “BP & Co Ld B’ham” only producing badges during the Great War, and personally think Bodill Parker & Co. Ltd are a much more likely candidate than Beyer Peacock & Co. Ltd as the name behind the slider mark, and also that it certainly wasn’t Bent & Parker. Anyway, I hope you find at least some of the above of interest.

Best regards

Martin

[Sawstonjohn]

Originally Posted by 'Ticker' Riley

Hi John

Many thanks for posting the link to Joe Lloyd’s short historical review of Beyer Peacock Company’s locomotive building activities, but I don’t personally see anything conclusive in this I’m afraid. Other than that the Firm became a private limited company in 1883, and then a public one in 1902, as well as the fact they are known as “BP & Co. Ltd” of course. I have to say there still doesn’t look to be any indication of a Birmingham connection here, which is clearly indicated by the slider mark in question. However I think I may have actually found the company who is represented by the mark “BP & Co Ld B’ham”.

I have now had a chance to have a quick look at three editions of Kelly’s Directory of Birmingham, for 1915, 1920 and 1928. Unfortunately I can’t access the intervening years to get a fuller picture, but what I have found is certainly suggestive and also fits with your thoughts on someone moving into badge production as a contribution to the War effort. The significant entry is in the ‘Trades & Professional’ section of the 1920 directory, where under ‘Military & Naval Ornament Manufacturers’ we find a company called “Bodill Parker & Co. Limited”, of Albion Works, Great Hampton Row. Now I would say myself that there stands a very good chance that this firm’s name could be shortened, in the same way as Beyer Peacock & Co., to BP & Co. Ltd. Further in the ‘Professional and Commercial’ section of the same 1920 Kelly’s Directory we find the following fuller entry on what this particular company made:

More interesting still is that in both Kellys’ Directory of Birmingham (Including the Suburbs and the Borough of Smethwick) for 1915 and the 1928 Kellys’ Directory of Birmingham (with its Suburbs) and Smethwick, Bodill Parker & Co. Limited do not appear under ‘Military & Naval Ornament Manufacturers’ in the relevant ‘Trades & Professional’ sections. They are, however, still to be found in the ‘Professional and Commercial’ sections with almost exactly the same descriptions of the wares they produced as that given in the 1920 directory, but with the crucial exception of not including the line about “& military & naval ornament manufacturers”. I would say that this goes well with your idea of this “BP & Co Ld B’ham” only producing badges during the Great War, and personally think Bodill Parker & Co. Ltd are a much more likely candidate than Beyer Peacock & Co. Ltd as the name behind the slider mark, and also that it certainly wasn’t Bent & Parker. Anyway, I hope you find at least some of the above of interest.

Best regards

Martin

Martin

Many thanks again for such a comprehensive piece. I really do think you are onto something here!

I will send you a PM

John

['Ticker' Riley]

Since my last posting to this thread I’ve been looking through various issues of the monthly publication The Board of Trade Labour Gazette, from the beginning of 1914 through to the end of 1919. More particularly I’ve been looking at that part of each issue which list the names of companies who were awarded government contracts during the preceding month. Sadly no actual details of the various contracts are given in the lists, which merely have the company names arranged in alphabetical order; albeit under main section headings, such as “War Office”, “India Office”, etc., and then under general headings for the kind of materials concerned. In this respect however I have been extracting all the names shown during this period as being specifically awarded War Office contracts for “Badges, Metal”, the results of which I will post up to a new thread once I’ve had an opportunity to check things through and collate the information.

Interestingly though, and with specific relevance here, is that according to these lists “Bodill, Parker & Co. Ltd”, of “Albion Works, Great Hampton Row, Birmingham”, look to have been awarded contracts to produce metal badges for the War Office during the following months: December 1915; January, February, March, May, August & September 1916; and January & August 1917. Now whilst these contracts could well have been for military badges other than cap badges, given we do have items marked “BP & Co Ld B’ham”, I personally think this adds a little more weight to the idea that Bodill Parker did make cap badges and that they are the firm behind this particular makers mark. Presumably the only way to find out more about these contracts, which could be nine separate ones or possibly more if they were awarded more than one contract in any one month, would be to look through the Board of Trade Records at Kew? Nevertheless, I think we do have enough suggestive evidence from this, and the entries in the Birmingham trade directories which I noted before, to ascribe the “BP & Co Ld B’ham” mark to Bodill Parker & Co. Ltd, rather than Bent & Parker Ltd; whose mark does seem to have been just “B&P”.

For information Bodill Parker & Company Limited later became Bodill Parker (1922) Limited, who now look to be part of Bodill Parker Group Limited, and are today based at Tipton in the Black Country. I did actually try contacting them after making my previous posting, to see if they could confirm they did once make military cap badges, but sadly, as of yet, I haven’t received a reply. Like many manufacturing firms I’m sure their main concern will be keeping the business going, so I doubt they will have much interest in digging into their records to see what they were making over ninety years ago! Still, if I do hear anything from them I will be sure to let the Forum know. I will also post up the full list of company names, with years of contracts awarded, from The Board of Trade Labour Gazette 1914-1919 in the near future.

Regards

Martin

[RBJ MIlitaria]

Here is an example of this makers mark

[GriffMJ]

Just to add:-

" Bodhill & Co., Ltd., Broad Street Metal Works (1886) then Bodill Parker c1899, Later reorganised as Bodhill Parker (1922) Ltd., Albion Works, 33 & 36, Great Hampton Row, Birmingham, cabinetmakers brassfoundry, button sticks, sail eyelets, nails and pins.."