Field Marshal Gives Museum World's Greatest Collection of Indian Army Badges

[Mike_2817]

A generous donation makes the National Army Museum the holder of the world’s greatest collection of Indian Army insignia - covering buttons, cap badges, collar badges, shoulder titles, pouch badges, pouch belt plates, and waistbelt clasps.

The gift of the Indian Army Collection by Field Marshal Sir John Chapple covers over 9,000 items relating to the Indian Army. Spanning over a century from the 19th century until Partition in 1947, the collection took Sir John 70 years to collect.

http://www.nam.ac.uk/press/field-mar...an-army-badges

[peter monahan]

He also donated his Gurkha collection - 3,000 items, I believe - to the Gurkha Museum at Aldershot. Sir John was a fine soldier and is one of the world's leading experts on IA insignia, as well as being an all round spiffing gent. many years ago he and I correspopnded and he was always very generous of his time and advice and I discovered only by accident his exalted rank and many postnomial letters! he is the President of the Indian Military History Society too.

[Charlie 585]

Does it follow then that the collection will go into the museums out of town storage facility possibly never again to see the light of day, as with the PARKYN collection?

I do hope not

[Wooffy]

Unless I have read the original article wrong (highly possible!) the date of that post was in Dec. 2013 - so where has it been for the past 2½/3 years; has anyone seen it on display?

[altcar73]

It will be dumped in the basement and forgotten about. The so called National Army Museum need to hang their heads in shame. They were given the "J.R. Gaunt" archive many years ago. That languished in a damp basement for many years until it was re-discovered and then sold at auction via DNW. As the purchaser of a number of lots I can say without a shadow of doubt that the condition of many of the items was nothing short of criminal. I would not give them the steam off my proverbial. Sir John needs his head examining!

Dave.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by Wooffy

Unless I have read the original article wrong (highly possible!) the date of that post was in Dec. 2013 - so where has it been for the past 2½/3 years; has anyone seen it on display?

Can't work out when it was posted as a press announcement but (as you say) the website indicates that it was last updated in 2013. Yes, just checked. The donation took place in 2013.

Dave.

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

A generous donation makes the National Army Museum the holder of the world’s greatest collection of Indian Army insignia - covering buttons, cap badges, collar badges, shoulder titles, pouch badges, pouch belt plates, and waistbelt clasps.

The gift of the Indian Army Collection by Field Marshal Sir John Chapple covers over 9,000 items relating to the Indian Army. Spanning over a century from the 19th century until Partition in 1947, the collection took Sir John 70 years to collect.

http://www.nam.ac.uk/press/field-mar...an-army-badges

Your a bit late mate. That was announced in 2013!

[54Bty]

Seventy years to collect and seventy minutes to disappear!!

Marc

[Mike_2817]

Yes I am well aware it is dated 2013, but have not seen it mentioned anywhere else.

If others care to read the article the collection is housed in the Indian Army Memorial Room at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, the home of the original Indian Army Museum.

This thread does highlight however just how mush museum artefacts are stored and not displayed, such as the boxes of 'working pattern' badges disposed of by the MoD

[peter monahan]

I agree that letting artifacts get damaged in storage is unconscionable, but let's not hurry to slag the Museum. I'm sure, given the kind of budget they'd like - say 10% of the MoD's annual share - they'd display everything they had. Keep in mind that no mseum has EVER been able to display more than 10% of its holdings - and probably shouldn't - and military musuems are the poor cousins of the museum world.

I wonder what better solution the members think Sir John might have adopted. Break the collection up? Send it to India? Sell it to dealers to pass on to collectors at a mark up? Or...?

[altcar73]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

I agree that letting artifacts get damaged in storage is unconscionable, but let's not hurry to slag the Museum. I'm sure, given the kind of budget they'd like - say 10% of the MoD's annual share - they'd display everything they had. Keep in mind that no mseum has EVER been able to display more than 10% of its holdings - and probably shouldn't - and military musuems are the poor cousins of the museum world.

I wonder what better solution the members think Sir John might have adopted. Break the collection up? Send it to India? Sell it to dealers to pass on to collectors at a mark up? Or...?

The fact that a Government funded museum can allow artifacts to deteriorate through poor storage is an indication of the "couldn't care less" view that they take in respect of items which they exist to care for.

".... military museums are the poor cousins of the museum world". That certainly does not apply to the National Army Museum. Take a look at their last (and previous) finance reports. A very wealthy organisation who employ a plethora of highly paid senior staff with eye watering annual salaries. No shortage of cash there at all!

The guy would have been much better advised to put the collection in auction and allowed collectors to care for and enjoy the fruits of his labour, with the proceeds donated to charity. As an aside, what is wrong with dealers buying and passing on to collectors at a mark up? Such a practice has always gone on and will continue to do so.

Dave.

[Charlie 585]

Originally Posted by peter monahan

world.

I wonder what better solution the members think Sir John might have adopted. Break the collection up? Send it to India? Sell it to dealers to pass on to collectors at a mark up? Or...?

Speaking in general terms it would be better in my humble opinion to break such a collection up and have it go into re-circulation on the open market than to have it rot unseen and ultimately lost, or, as in the case of the Gaunt archive, to break it up and sell it off once it has deteriorated to a shadow of its former condition.

This might even help with the financial picture and given that up to 90% of any said holdings are in long term storage, it seems that a solution is staring them in the face.

Please let it be noted that my views are not meant as a personal attack on the museum or any individual connected to it and are not stated with any malice, in fact I am grateful to the museum in question for agreeing to let me view the Parkyn collection some time ago, an opportunity that regretfully I wasn't ultimately able to take up.

Regards to all who have a view on this worthy debate.

Ry

[zob]

From what I saw of this collection at the MHS shows, it would take up the vast majority of museums floor space just to exhibit it properly. The Princely States exhibition alone filled practically two walls if I remember correctly. Absolutely, mind numbingly fantastic, and far too much to take in one go. I’m only glad I don’t collect in this field anymore; otherwise I’d probably suffer from manic depression after a visit to the Indian Room. So it’s probably best hidden away, that is of course if you don’t mind to feeling like a complete amateur, after realising that you haven’t even made a scratch, let alone a dent by comparison. Let’s hope that the National Army Museum at least catalogue it, along with the Ghurkha collection so that those with healthy interest in this area can gain access as and when their needs arise.

[pinfrin]

3000 sq ft (or much less)

30 Cap/Collar/Shoulder titles per sq ft - as at 08-06-14 & 12-06-14 posts 2,5.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...6&pp=25&page=8
Larger ones 3 + per sq ft ?

[peter monahan]

That would be an incredibly impressive / humbling /depressing display, depending on one's view.

I take your point about the collection being broken up and hence 'accesible' but I'm a museum's person as well as a collector and I regularly read and hear horror stories of stuff rescued from the dust bin, burned, melted down... by people who's parent, friend, ... amassed the collection originally. So, for all their warts, my money is on the institutions. The other thing is, if its at the NAM, I can talk/bribe my way in to see it, even in a basement, as opposed to waiting till some bloke in a pub introduces me to another bloke who has it in his basement.

No slur here on collectors, either. I am/was one myself.