ARMY APPRENTICES SCHOOL - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

engr9266 · #1 22-04-12, 03:18 PM

Can anyone tell what colour shoulder title would have been worn by ARMY APPRENTICES SCHOOL who were Royal Engineers, Please??

Neil Pearce · #2 22-04-12, 03:47 PM

memory gone

Trying to find out - I was there 81/82.

Mike Jackson · #3 22-04-12, 04:44 PM

The standard titles were both yellow on blue - ARMY APPRENTICES SCHOOL and ARMY APPRENTICES. I have never seen or heard of a variant in RE colours of blue on red (as per DUKE OF YORK'S R.M.S.)

engr9266 · #4 22-04-12, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

The standard titles were both yellow on blue - ARMY APPRENTICES SCHOOL and ARMY APPRENTICES. I have never seen or heard of a variant in RE colours of blue on red (as per DUKE OF YORK'S R.M.S.)

Mike, I have seen a AAS tiltle for sale and wanted to be sure that the yellow on dark blue was correct even for RE's.

Jerry.

Mike Jackson · #5 22-04-12, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engr9266

Mike, I have seen a AAS tiltle for sale and wanted to be sure that the yellow on dark blue was correct even for RE's.

Jerry.

Jerry,
As far as I know they all wore the same titles - irrespective of corps. I would imagine they wore an AAS cap badge too - and were not badged to the corps they were to join until just before passing out/graduation or whatever. Mike

jeep · #6 23-04-12, 02:23 PM

As far as I am aware the same titles (and cap badge) were worn by all four schools until the respective corps took control in 1966, when corps badges were adopted.
The two shoulder badges in the pic are 100% genuine as they were mine and worn 1962 - 64. The colours are a pale yellow on black and the width bottom corners is 95mm.
The other badge I'm not sure about. Picked it up along the way, but the yellow is slightly brighter and the width is less at 85mm. Fake/repro? Don't know, but there may have been more than one manufacturer.

Mike Jackson · #7 23-04-12, 03:03 PM

On the upper title, the width between the bottom left of the A and the bottom right of the L is 94mm; on the lower title it's 100mm:
AAS Title.jpg

ARTY · #8 08-12-15, 11:00 PM

hi
as an ex Army Apprentice we all wore the same uniform and insignia until our final passing out and the shoulder flash I would say was actually yellow writing on black background i will attach picture of my old flash to let you decide.
Arty

engr9266 · #9 09-12-15, 10:52 AM

Thanks for your replies for an old thread-2012. I now have 2 shoulder tiltles for the A.A.S. Can you confirm that both were worn at some time. Thanks

jeep · #10 09-12-15, 05:08 PM

Jerry. I was not aware that there were ever two titles i.e. 'ARMY APPRENTICES SCHOOL' and 'ARMY APPRENTICES'. As far as I know only the former was used. If anyone knows (Mike in post 3?) for a fact that the second was used where and when, then I would be happy to be proved wrong.
The Australian apprentice scheme however did have two worded titles, but it was in the singular i.e. APPRENTICE, not APPRENTICES. Also their title was white on black and came in two versions, with and without a line border around the wording.
Difficult to see from your photo, but is it possible that the word SCHOOL has been cut off? Apprentices were minded to try anything to enhance their 'status,' indeed during the war the brass title worn with SD was 'ATS' (Army Technical School) lettering all one size, but boys would remove these out of barracks so as not to have the mickey taken out of them when confused with that fine body of women with the same title! Boys will be boys!

jeep · #11 14-12-15, 04:01 PM

Jerry. Further to my last. I have been doing a bit of digging re this shortened title, and have received this from a Chepstow old boy.

"I go to the Chepstow reunions and have discussed these shortened titles with those who were at Chepstow after I was.
As I understand it, in the early sixties when the term "school" had become unfashionable and before 1966 when the term "College"
was officially introduced, it was the tailor, authorised of course, who cut the full titles down before sewing them on.
No one I spoke to could remember whether everybody had to wear them shortened or only the new terms.
I can imagine only the new terms, as when I was there in the fifties there was a mixture of King's crown and Queen's crown badges together with
brass and staybrite buttons."

Well you learn something every day! Something else I now have to add to my 'wants' list.

Mike_2817 · #12 14-12-15, 04:51 PM

Hi Jerry, You may be aware that RAOC AE's later AT's also did their training at the Army Apprentices School at Cheptow which was mainly an RE school, and I came up with the same conclusions on the two yellow on dark blue shoulder titles also worn by RAOC Apprentices, that one was a cut down version of the other.

Postwarden · #13 14-12-15, 05:05 PM

An interesting and informative thread.

Can I throw two more questions please? I have the attached scan of the full school title with green lettering. Can anyone suggest why it might have been made or worn or is it just the usual "manufacturers error"?

In 1953 a contributor to the Journal of the Military Heraldry Society attributed this cloth flash to the Army Technical School. Anyone got any thoughts on that one?

Jon

badjez · #14 15-12-15, 12:21 AM

On 13.02.51. Ordnance List of Change No C4454 recorded the following:

Titles, Arm, Embroidered.
Army Apprentices School (Cat No CB 2347).
1. Introduction.
The above-mentioned Titles, Arm, Embroidered (pattern No 13857) (announced in Minor Changes 2055, April, 1947) hereby formally introduced for wear by personnel of the Army Apprentices School.

Titles, Arm, Embroidered.
Army Technical School (Cat No CB 2099).
2. Obsolete.
Consequent upon ‘1’ and the change in designation from Army Technical School to that now shown, the above-mentioned title (Pattern No 12741) is hereby declared obsolete.
Existing stocks will be returned to R.A.O.C. for disposal.

I have yet to find copies of the Minor Changes document mentioned so if anyone can help me locate them (they are not in Kew, IWM, NAM or with the RLC archives)

Stephen.

PS- Jon, I yellow over black diamond badges, and a black yellow diagonally divided oblong patch that have old labels on them denoting they are Hampshire Regt (certainly their regimental colours). However, the same cards show a Bedfs & Herts bumble-bee flash also as Hants so I don't trust it.

Mike Jackson · #15 15-12-15, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Postwarden

An interesting and informative thread.

Can I throw two more questions please? I have the attached scan of the full school title with green lettering. Can anyone suggest why it might have been made or worn or is it just the usual "manufacturers error"?

In 1953 a contributor to the Journal of the Military Heraldry Society attributed this cloth flash to the Army Technical School. Anyone got any thoughts on that one?

Jon

The flash. If the identification was dated 1953 it is in my opinion more likely to be accurate since it will have been based (like Les Cable's early identifications) on information/donation from a primary source such as former wearer. I'll run it past Les next time we meet. Mike