Unwelcome visitors

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Hoot

It's a funny old world JT. When Adolph got Ferdinand Porsche and his team to design a "Peoples Car" (Yes I know it's debatable as to who really designed it) I doubt he imagined for one minute that VW would go on to sell over 20 million of them worldwide. The association with the Nazi head honcho clearly never deterred people from buying them and that included a lot of Allied veterans. The cars sold well because they were seen as being reliable and well put together and their origins were of no consequence to anyone apparently. It's what's known as "Getting over it". Buying a Beetle could have been construed as being pro-Nazi but I don't recall that ever being the case. Anyway I always preferred the Hillman Imp myself, a good old British mixture of pleasure, pain and sometimes sheer frustration, happy days.

And you can bet your life more than a few history-denying, statue pullers-down own one.

JT

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Hoot

It's a funny old world JT. When Adolph got Ferdinand Porsche and his team to design a "Peoples Car" (Yes I know it's debatable as to who really designed it) I doubt he imagined for one minute that VW would go on to sell over 20 million of them worldwide. The association with the Nazi head honcho clearly never deterred people from buying them and that included a lot of Allied veterans. The cars sold well because they were seen as being reliable and well put together and their origins were of no consequence to anyone apparently. It's what's known as "Getting over it". Buying a Beetle could have been construed as being pro-Nazi but I don't recall that ever being the case. Anyway I always preferred the Hillman Imp myself, a good old British mixture of pleasure, pain and sometimes sheer frustration, happy days.

Don't forget FANTA

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Don't forget FANTA

I did not know that.

Interesting to read just now on Wiki:

'The German plant was cut off from Coca-Cola headquarters following America's entry into the war following the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. After the war, the Coca-Cola Company regained control of the plant, formula, and the trademarks to the new Fanta product'

...and interestingly:

'as well as the plant profits made during the war.'

JT

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

H,

Hillman Imp! Engine in the boot; boot in the engine compartment. There the Beetle similarity ends.

JT

Great little cars though, both of them.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Hoot

Great little cars though, both of them.

H,

Didn't 'Man in a Suitcase' used to drive one?

JT

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Nozzer

Don't forget FANTA

I had to look that one up as well. Very interesting.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

H,

Didn't 'Man in a Suitcase' used to drive one?

JT

Never watched it JT but 'er indoors says that's correct.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Hoot

Never watched it JT but 'er indoors says that's correct.

Good enough for me

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

And you can bet your life more than a few history-denying, statue pullers-down own one.

JT

It's against the law to drive under the influence of drugs so I doubt if any of those morons are in a fit state to drive anything. r

[Luke H]

Pardon me but German companies seems a world away from a bunch of weirdos rolling down the high street dressed up in SS uniforms.

The latter is in my view NOT part of Sheringham’s history, thankfully, due to the brave men and women who stopped it.

I could perhaps understand a Luftwaffe pilot or air crew uniform but the group concerned clearly are fantasists indulging in a very unhealthy SS fascination that bears no relevance to the aim of the event IMO. Yes they may have been coming for years but I do not believe this makes it right.

As to freedom or speech and expression there is a line. This is why we have public order act offences in this country - these people were in a public place. It would be different if they played SS dress up at home or on private premises they’d hired to indulge.

If the insinuation is it should be allowed to do this in Sheringham and people not be offended then my response would be is it fine for them to do this in Golders Green or Stamford Hill and we expect people not to be offended or it stopped? I would suggest not.

And I’m quite sure if VW or Fanta had a 1940s history day they’d not invite SS reinactors.

Just saying.

[Hoot]

The Nazi connection to VW is irrefutable.

[Gary B]

The list of "culpable" companies with links to Germany's worst days, that are still trading today, is frightening - not going to get my soap box out but:

AEG: or Allgemeine Elektricitäts-Gesellschaft AG allegedly used large numbers of forced labourers as well as concentration camp prisoners, under inhuman conditions of work.

Audi: Allegedly employed forced labour on a large scale, exploiting slave labor at Leitmeritz concentration camp. According to a 2014 report commissioned by the company, Auto Union bore "moral responsibility" for the 4,500 deaths that occurred at Leitmeritz.

BASF: Partnered Degussa AG and IG Farben to produce elements used in Zyklon B which of course, was widely used in Concentration Camps to commit mass murder throughout the Holocaust.

Bayer: This company nowadays famous for research and production of medicines, allegedly used forced labour and carried-out medical experimentation in concentration camps.

BMW: Allegedly used forced labour from concentration camps.

Deutsche Bank: Allegedly provided construction loans for Auschwitz.

Hugo Boss: Allegedly used forced labour and produced propaganda items for the Nazi State and the Vichy Collaborating State.

Siemens: Allegedly used forced labour - from June 1942, Siemens (& Halske) had a production barracks built in the immediate vicinity of the Ravensbrück women's concentration camp for armaments production....

...and many more (allegedly, of course...)

By the way - in a two page spread in yesterday's Daily Mail, they named the chief-loon of the "re-enactors" (who like to pretend they're soldiers of the 5th SS Wiking Regiment - an armed unit under the command of Heirich Himmler - who as far as I can determine, never lived in Sheringham). The chief-loon's son says his Dad used to drape a swastika flag over the washing line every April 20th to celebrate the birthday of that bloke with only one testicle... The piece also included a picture pf the chief-loon holidaying in Bavaria and standing to attention (shoulders back but unfortunately, not stomach in) throwing a Nazi salute to a blue sky over snow-topped mountains - Like you do.

Oh, he was also a member of the BNP too (so his son alleges...)

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Hoot

The Nazi connection to VW is irrefutable.

I didn’t say it wasn’t.

I said it’s different topic to a bunch of folk walking down the street in SS uniforms. Which this thread is about.

[magpie]

Unfortunately a good number of countries have a great deal of blood on their hands, the only difference is we all wrote our own history the way we wanted it.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Pardon me but German companies seems a world away from a bunch of weirdos rolling down the high street dressed up in SS uniforms.

The latter is in my view NOT part of Sheringham’s history, thankfully, due to the brave men and women who stopped it.

I could perhaps understand a Luftwaffe pilot or air crew uniform but the group concerned clearly are fantasists indulging in a very unhealthy SS fascination that bears no relevance to the aim of the event IMO. Yes they may have been coming for years but I do not believe this makes it right.

As to freedom or speech and expression there is a line. This is why we have public order act offences in this country - these people are in a public place. It would be different if they played SS dress up at home or on private premises they’d hired to indulge.

If the insinuation is it should be allowed to do this in Sheringham and people not be offended then my response would be is it fine for them to do this in Golders Green or Stamford Hill and we expect people not to be offended or it stopped? I would suggest not.

And I’m quite sure if VW or Fanta had a 1940s history day they’d not invite SS reinactors.

Just saying.

Luke,

I think most of would agree that making a conscious decision to parade the streets of a known Jewish-populated area, dressed as any kind of Nazi, would, among other things, be a deliberate attempt at inciting racial hatred. But could we say the same of these SS reenactors participating in the 1940's bash, down Sheringham way? Is it the same thing?

Likewise, if you were to sit yourself down in the Whitechapel Road, and start chalking a pavement picture of the Prophet Mohammed, you would be doing precisely the same thing. Should that mean that the Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, should not have been free to publish twelve cartoons of the Prophet, as they did back in 2005(?), sparking the furore that ensued?

It's an interesting debate: how tolerant should a tolerant society be? And how right you are when you say: 'as to freedom or speech and expression there is a line.' If I may paraphrase A.C. Grayling: 'the risk that tolerance will breed monsters is a real one, and yet it is part of the price tolerance exacts, and has to be paid. This does not mean that our principles enfeeble us; if free speech/freedom of expression is abused by its use as an incitement to hatred or violence, there can be remedies. But society has to determine where the line is crossed from merely offensive, to dangerous speech/behaviour.'

Lastly, I think it's safe to say that any connection between the SS reenactors, and the VW/Fanta digression is, as far as this thread is concerned, nothing more than an partial-exploration across the spectrum of opinions and attitudes, understanding and ignorance displayed by society when it comes to such subjects.

JT