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  #1  
Old 16-06-09, 11:12 AM
Terry Rayner Terry Rayner is offline
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Default Puggaree vs pagri

Ok all you wordsmiths out there is it Pagri or Pugaree?
Regards Terry
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  #2  
Old 16-06-09, 11:58 AM
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Hi Terry,

To my little mind, Puggaree is in the dictionary and I couldn't find Pagri, so I try to use Puggaree........................

Dave.
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  #3  
Old 16-06-09, 01:00 PM
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Hi GD,

No need to open a new thread re Pagri/Puggaree, if you use the Oxford dictionary ( I've used the Oxford Complete Wordfinder ), to substantiate your argument re the word ' Cartouche ' then the description of the Puggaree is included but not Pagri, simples !!

Dave.

Last edited by davec2; 16-06-09 at 01:20 PM.
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  #4  
Old 16-06-09, 02:33 PM
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Default Cartouche/Pagri

Hello Dave - As you will have discovered, the word 'puggaree' is not English at all but Indian (originally from the Bengali) and adopted into the English language through military usage and our other imperial connections with India. The term 'pagri' is, of course, how the 19th century (and later) folk would spell the word, not knowing the correct form which, incidentally, has no direct translation from the Bengali into English so we settled for 'puggaree' (sometimes 'pugharee'). As such, 'pagri' should, I presume, be regarded as the slang spelling of the word. Great stuff, eh ? GD
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  #5  
Old 16-06-09, 03:22 PM
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Hello again GD,

We are way off thread now but I concur totally, I would think ( me and thinking, oh dear ), that it is down to phonetics too, it is easier to say Pagri than Puggaree, me thinks.

My earlier remark re chefs however, is near the mark too, the piece of circular ( normally ), paper used to cover food in a pan while on a simmer is also called a cartouche ?????

Dave.
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  #6  
Old 16-06-09, 04:10 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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Interestingly the term used in Dress Regulations 1900 is PUGGAREES but in Dress Regulations 1934 it has become PAGRIS.

It appears that descriptions change over a period of time, we talk about shoulder titles ( cloth and metal ) but I think they were originally called "Shoulder designations"

P.B.
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  #7  
Old 16-06-09, 04:33 PM
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Hello Peter,

Would the same not apply to the description ' device ', I have seen several badges of different types called a Helmet Device, for example, when does a Helmet Device become a Helmet Plate.

I used to think I fixed my belt around my waist using a buckle but I believe the correct terminology is ' Waist Belt Clasp ' but surely it's a buckle ?? I wonder, do these, for want of a better word, quirks, only refer to Militaria ???

Dave.
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  #8  
Old 16-06-09, 04:47 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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Dave,

I dont know about areas of collecting other than militaria but I assume that over a period of time certain items become known by terms used by collectors rather than the terms used in original official publications liike dress regulations.

Dress Regulations 1900 refer to badges worn on the "waist plate ", and in connection with horse furniture, dress regulations refer to badges worn on the "breast plate" which I think today we would call martingale badges.

As long as collectors know what is being talked about I dont think there is much of a problem.

P.B.
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  #9  
Old 16-06-09, 04:48 PM
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Who cares?
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  #10  
Old 16-06-09, 04:58 PM
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Default Pagri

Viletone - I believe that a lot of people 'care' !!! Not, perhaps, in the sense of being dogmatic or clever but because it is all part of the rich pastiche that is collecting and military collecting in particular. I certainly care about sound and sensible debate and discussion, particularly when I stand to improve my knowledge of a subject. Of course, caring isn't compulsory so don't feel sidelined by my comments. GD
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  #11  
Old 16-06-09, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grand Duchess View Post
Viletone - I believe that a lot of people 'care' !!! Not, perhaps, in the sense of being dogmatic or clever but because it is all part of the rich pastiche that is collecting and military collecting in particular. I certainly care about sound and sensible debate and discussion, particularly when I stand to improve my knowledge of a subject. Of course, caring isn't compulsory so don't feel sidelined by my comments. GD
I won't be. I aslo won't be put off buying a pugarree badge because it's listed/traded as a pagri or vice versa.
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  #12  
Old 16-06-09, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viletone View Post
Who cares?
Hi Viletone,

I promised myself that I wouldn't get drawn into any more contentious debates but on this occasion, I've succumbed.

A member asked a question, several other members, who obviously care, tried to answer his question, do you really have a problem with that ? or do you find it a necessity, every now and then, to stick a derisory comment into the middle of a perfectly harmless discussion, if you don't care, why bother to post a comment at all ?

I can't see the reasoning of why anyone would want to drop a snide remark into a debate that was not interesting enough for them, why not let them get on with it and go and do the things that give you pleasure......or is this it ?

Dave.

PS, I don't bite twice................................DC.
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  #13  
Old 16-06-09, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davec2 View Post
Hi Viletone,

I promised myself that I wouldn't get drawn into any more contentious debates but on this occasion, I've succumbed.

A member asked a question, several other members, who obviously care, tried to answer his question, do you really have a problem with that ? or do you find it a necessity, every now and then, to stick a derisory comment into the middle of a perfectly harmless discussion, if you don't care, why bother to post a comment at all ?

I can't see the reasoning of why anyone would want to drop a snide remark into a debate that was not interesting enough for them, why not let them get on with it and go and do the things that give you pleasure......or is this it ?

Dave.

PS, I don't bite twice................................DC.
Well I've got the dishes to wash up plus a couple of other chores. When they're done some people will be calling it a pagri, others a pugarree like they have done for the past one hundred years without a definitive answer as to what is correct.
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  #14  
Old 16-06-09, 08:19 PM
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Default pagri

Viletone - Does your last posting actually mean anything ? You certainly seem to live up to your ID - if you have a problem, why not just keep it to yourself ? GD

Davec2 - Thanks. GD
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  #15  
Old 16-06-09, 09:03 PM
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Bill A Bill A is offline
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In the B&CMBF, the discussion is focused on badges, not the poster. Please discuss the insignia and refrain from slipping in personal comments.
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