Boyles Yukon Machine Gun Battery Cap Badge

[mad4thcef]

Can someone clarify whether the collars belonging to Boyles Yukon MG Bty were worn as a Cap Badge?

If so could you post a picture or make reference to wear your information comes from of either a soldier wearing a collar as a cap badge!


Thanx in advance for clarification!

rob mad4thcef

[mad4thcef]

FYI

I have attached a photograph of Boyles Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery.

The Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery served with the 4th Canadian Division E Battery, the 1st CDN Motor Machine Gun Brigade CEF 16 August 1916.

Unit Strength 6 Officers- 94 Other Ranks

Disbanded 16 August 1916

Due to the fact this was a small unit and consulting with some old time collectors etc. I am convinced that collar badges were worn as a cap badge.

The dimension of the collar are Height 1.5 inches and Width 1.4 inches.
The cap badge is approx double the size of the collar and are RARE and expensive!

Note the picture of the collar comes from the recent auction on ebay! It sold for $800.00 US.

[Bill A]

The photo shows most of the group in stetsons. IIRC, there was no badge worn on that headdress. That raises the question of when the hat badges were taken into use? If the unit wore the stetson overseas, they would not have had many badges made.
The supposition that the unit wore the collar as a hat badge is a sound theory. Several other units wore collars as cap badges due to shortages. The 9th wore the 101st collar badge as a cap badge for a period of time, and there is photo evidence that some officer's recruited into the 159th wore the collars of the 97th Algonquin Regiment.

[Joe C]

CSC (Signals) collars were also worn as cap badges during the First World War. To this day there is an ongoing debate about small caps, large collars but evidence points to the same sized badge being used for both uses.

[army outfitters]

Originally Posted by mad4thcef

FYI

I have attached a photograph of Boyles Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery.

The Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery served with the 4th Canadian Division E Battery, the 1st CDN Motor Machine Gun Brigade CEF 16 August 1916.

Unit Strength 6 Officers- 94 Other Ranks

Disbanded 16 August 1916

Due to the fact this was a small unit and consulting with some old time collectors etc. I am convinced that collar badges were worn as a cap badge.

The dimension of the collar are Height 1.5 inches and Width 1.4 inches.
The cap badge is approx double the size of the collar and are RARE and expensive!

Note the picture of the collar comes from the recent auction on ebay! It sold for $800.00 US.

Hey mad4thcef
I do not have the final answer on this badge but you would not believe the amount of hostile emails I received from a few certain collectors/experts telling me that this was a collar. One person was at least kind enough to send me photographic proof that it was a collar. When I changed the listing to reflect this I received another email from a well known collector telling me that yes it is a collar but they also wore them as cap badges. Sorry I cant be of more assistance to you in this matter
regards
Dave

[Voltigeur]

Hi Gents. Just found this while searching on the subject.Hoping this helps a bit.
Jo
http://whitehorsestar.com/photos/sto...great-showing/

A photo of Joe Boyle.
http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/proj...aphics/joe.gif

[Bill A]

It is hard to tell which pattern cap badge they are wearing in the group photo. Could be the CMGC with Canada scroll or maybe the Yukon badge?

[8thHussar]

The collar dogs are gold panning pans about the size of a Canadian 25 cent piece. The are marked "Yukon" and "Canada" and have a gold nugget in the pan that is roughly four times the size of the nugget that is on the badge. I have one.

[Bill A]

Is there some confusion here? I understood that the collars with YUKON / Canada and the nugget (gold for officer's, a copper one for OR's) was for the Yukon Infantry Company. The collars for Boyle's were leaf pattern with Boyles Yukon MGD Canada on the badge. (See CSMMI Summer Issue 2011, plus Charltons' guides.)

[8thHussar]

I stand corrected.

[8thHussar]

So what I have is an officer's badge from Boyle's battery and an officer's collar from the Yukon company.

[8thHussar]

Also, since the collar for Boyle's Battery was a maple leaf inscribed MGD, all of the discussion regarding the wear of collars as badges must be wrong. Perhaps there is a problem discriminating between OR and officer badges? Either way, the device with the crossed machine guns can only be a hat badge.

[Northman]

Just to let you all know that even though the reference to the 28-3 badge in this CEF portion of this site is refered to as Boyle's Yukon Machine Gun Battery, this is wrong. I have just recently written an article in several well known Canadian collecting journals about these badges after over 35 years of research dealing with these units. In all my data I have from the LAC and other collectors, no where does it mention that this is Boyle's unit. It IS simply Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery and should from now on be refered to as this. Maybe this should be changed on the CEF portion of the site ? My suggestion if you wish to change this. Boyle's men did serve in this unit but so did members from the Yukon Inf Coy and even members who were not from the Yukon having been transfered in. By the time these badges were made for the unit, Boyle was off in Russia and Romania have a grand adventure. Boyle never wore these badges. I do have pictures of what badges Boyle, and the members when the unit was first formed, would have worn and be happy to send along to the CEF section of this site. If anyone has any questions I would be happy to hear from them and discuss this.

[8thHussar]

Boyle certainly wore the maple leaf shaped collars as I have a picture of him (hatless) with the collars plainly evident. These collars include the inscription "Boyle's" in the banner, this in addition to the prominent MGD at the center of the collar. The association between Boyle and the Motor Machine Gun Detachment is clear on this collar.

[Bill A]

Hello Tim, and welcome to the Forum. Most of my comments were based on your article in the CSMMI Journal.
The YMMGB identity has been intertwined with Boyle so thoroughly it will take a lot of education to get collectors to change to the correct terminology. I am not sure how we change 50 or more years of collecting "wisdom". Charlton's First World War Canadian Corps Badges calls the cross Vickers MG badge "Boyles Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery". Perpetuation of the mis-nomer is embedded in the references.