2 badge RAF beret - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Longvalley · #1 22-06-11, 08:34 PM

hopefully this image uploaded correctly

Mike Jackson · #2 22-06-11, 09:26 PM

No idea about the badge I'm afraid, but is that a very unusual two seat Hawker Hurricane in the background?

wardog · #3 22-06-11, 09:32 PM

I don't know what it is. If it was a badge worn for some unknown reason I would have thought it would be level with and to the right as viewed of the RAF badge. Whatever it is, is on the loose material of the beret pulled down over the ear, and that itself would be an odd place to put a badge. Could it be a leaf, a big bit of fluff or perhaps a fault on the picture? I don't think we will be able to say for sure from this picture. Sorry not to be able to help. Regards, Paul.

SAS1 · #4 23-06-11, 10:05 AM

Was your father formerly a cadet, maybe at his school? The badge looks to me to be an Air Training Corps, or Combined Cadet Force lapel badge, pinned to the beret next to the cap badge. I must admit I've never seen it worn like that, but also in over 30 years of RAF collecting I've never seen an RAF badge that might be worn like that.

Its obviously a bit of a 'posey' photo (rather than a course photo for example) and I'm wondering if he's showing his former service in either an RAF CCF unit or ATC unit? Both lapel badges were circular and pin back (I have one sort in my collection and wore the other sort), meaning it was quickly and easily removed after the photo. Could be a sort of 'look at me, not forgetting my cadet days' type of photo. Its only a guess, but does fit.

The aircraft seems to be a defiant Trainer.

SAS1 · #5 23-06-11, 10:22 AM

This is the CCF badge. Lapel badges are now made in this manner, multicoloured, and about the size of a 5p piece. However, older ones were in a single colour only representing the respective service. Red for Army, dark blue for Navy and light blue for RAF cadets. My guess is its one of these.

I run the archive for my old school, and have one in the archive, but at the moment, not a photo to hand.

Staffsyeoman · #6 23-06-11, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

No idea about the badge I'm afraid, but is that a very unusual two seat Hawker Hurricane in the background?

A very unusual Hurricane indeed

as I think it's a Fairey Battle - they were converted to target tugs later in the war after their rather fatal showing in the Battle of France. This one doesn't seem to have the tug paint scheme so might be an engineering trainer, or a blind flying trainer from the look of the additional cockpit?

(Off-topic, but perhaps this should be sent into The Aeroplane which revels in this sort of puzzle, for an i.d.!)

Mike Jackson · #7 23-06-11, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staffsyeoman

A very unusual Hurricane indeed

as I think it's a Fairey Battle - they were converted to target tugs later in the war after their rather fatal showing in the Battle of France. This one doesn't seem to have the tug paint scheme so might be an engineering trainer, or a blind flying trainer from the look of the additional cockpit?

(Off-topic, but perhaps this should be sent into The Aeroplane which revels in this sort of puzzle, for an i.d.!)

On reflection, i'm sure you are correct. But isn't that large and Hurricane-like intake unusual for a Battle? And the presence of a spinner?

dragon166 · #8 23-06-11, 11:52 AM

Sorry I can't throw any light on your badge wear but the aircraft shown is a Boulton Paul Defiant.

Staffsyeoman · #9 23-06-11, 03:54 PM

If that's a turret I think you're right... fair point on the spinner Mike (though couldn't they retrofit?) - and having stared at it for ages (better than working) - I think the nose is too short for a Battle, so the weight goes back towards a Defiant, yes!

...but that still doesn't tell us what the badge is

SAS1 · #10 23-06-11, 03:58 PM

Aircraft is certainly a Defiant TT.1. A second cockpit replaced the rear turret. They were used in camouflaged form certainly by 286 Squadron in and after 1944, and probably by other units too, AA628 being an example.

As for the second badge, I'm 99% certain its a CCF Air Section lapel badge, or failing that, an enamelled ATC lapel badge.

Mike Jackson · #11 23-06-11, 04:20 PM

Perhaps we now need a follow-up thread on the insignia of the Royal Observer Corps!

Peter Brydon · #12 23-06-11, 05:23 PM

I never fail to be amazed at the level of knowledge on this Forum.

P.B.

wardog · #13 23-06-11, 11:51 PM

Unless there is a better picture and even if the gentleman was found to be an ex cadet, I feel from the image shown, any opinion can only be a guess. It could be anything. Has anyone been able to produce a better image to show it is some sort of badge? Would it not been more likely for him to put a lapel badge on his lapel? Also were such cadet badges of that time made with a pin or lapel 'horseshoe' fitting? Regards, Paul.

SAS1 · #14 24-06-11, 12:18 AM

Well obviously without a photo clear enough to positively identify it, it would only be a guess, but going by the size, shape, and colour shade (which all match the old style CCF lapel badge) thats my guess. Both the CCF and ATC badges both had a pin fitting rather than horseshoe so to pin them on a beret would be easy.

Why is it pinned to the beret and not lapel? Thats as easy as asking why it is being worn at all! But in 30 plus years of mostly RAF collecting, Ive not come across another badge that fits the bill.

wardog · #15 24-06-11, 11:04 AM

It will be interesting to find out if the gentleman was an ex cadet. If so a cadet badge cannot be discounted as one possibility.
Off on a tangent, would cadet service count towards which service a young National Serviceman ended up in? My father was allowed to finish his building apprenticeship going into the RE, so obviously there was some consideration to trade. Regards, Paul.