can anyone identify this badge please

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

Can any member of the Forum please identify the badge in the attached photo.

The initials are NGT.

Possibly a pre 1915 Natal badge.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Kind rergards

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Chris Walker

The initials are NGT.
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I would suggest to read it as NGJ.

[Chris Walker]

Dear Henk.
Many thanks for your suggestion.

I have just had a look at some Gothic Script on the web and I must admit I agree with you it really does look like a J and not a T.

So am now looking for the name of the badge with the initials NGJ.

I did have a thought that if it were a T it may be Natal Government Telegraph hence my interest.

I now think not and have no idea what the initials stand for.

Any help would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Chris Walker

[Hoot]

I think it could be a cap badge of the Newcastle and Gosforth Tramways, a late Victorian/Edwardian horse-drawn tram system.

[Alan O]

http://tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com/p...8/page358.html

This is the best single record of tramways insignia and they do not have it recorded.

[Chris Walker]

Dear Alan.

Many thanks for the thought of Newcastle and Gosforth Tramways.

Any idea not that I believe the initials are infact NGJ?????????

Many thanks for your help.

Chris Walker

[Buttonman]

Hello Chris,

The last letter looks like a T to me. If it was a J in that style I would have expected the top to have looped around more.

David.

[Hoot]

Originally Posted by Alan O

http://tramwaybadgesandbuttons.com/p...8/page358.html

This is the best single record of tramways insignia and they do not have it recorded.

Alan, I agree it's the best site for tramway insignia but, as they point out, some type of badge was probably worn on the cap/kepi but has yet to come to light. Being into tramway insignia I suppose it seemed a good possibility.

[Harlequin]

For me, it's a Green Jackets monogram, far preceding the RGJ mergers.

There were many GJ formations, pre and post WW2, and some suggestions that letter prefixes were used to identify fourteen of their infantry depots (so, "A" to "N", plus "O"). So 'N-GJ', possibly? http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...ackets_Brigade

Circumstantial, but persuasive. Letter-type make me feel that it's it's older, though. And the "J" could hint at 'Jugend'...interesting.

No maker's mark at all?

[leigh kitchen]

Sorry, confused - are you saying that this badge in some way relates to British Rifle regiments, being a depot indicating "N" with "GJ" referring to a regimental nickname or that it's an insignia of an unspecified German youth organisation?
Can you add to this "coincidental but persuasive" "evidence" please?

[Harlequin]

What I meant is that I have a recollection a long time ago of having seen the letters RGJ as an early formation title badge, and I believe they were of a cursive lettering style.

It therefore made me wonder (on reading that there were so many depot formations, identified by a single letter of the alphabet) whether these might have ever been used as a prefix identifier on regimental badges.

The comment regarding 'Jugend' was just a broader attempt to try and identify any semi-military group title which could conceivably have been a third word starting with the letter "J" (I found it remarkably-difficult to come up with anything after the two words that I offer here).

(My apologies if this is considered by the Forum to be too free-form as an approach to identification, I will be more cautious in my approach)

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

I am now happy in my mind that the initials on the badge in question is in fact NGT standing for the Natal Government Telegraph.

Although this is not in the true sense a military badge the information I have managed to acquire is as follows.

The badge dates to Pre 1903. The date of 1903 is when the fledgling Natal Telegraph Corps came into being. Initially with just two troops of 50 men and one officer. The unit was made up of telegraph personnel from other signals elements of the Infantry.

The NTC was re-enforced at the start of the Zulu rebellion of 1905/06 by postal and telegraph staff. It is thought that a great majority of these personnel were found from the Natal Government Telegraph service and there is a thought that a great many of the increased NTC personnel came from the NGT and became full members of the permanent force.

I am most grateful to Andrew Dinnes a member of this Forum and author of the book Border War Badges (A guide to South African Military & Police Badges 1964 - 1994) who has had one of these badges in his large collection for some time and has always known the initials to be Natal Government Telegraph service.

Should any member of the Forum be able to add to the above, I should be delighted to hear what they think.

For the time being I am more than happy to accept NGT as the Natal Government Telegrapgh .

With my best wishes.

Chris Walker