My Father - RFC/Air Sea Rescue? - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

jeep · #1 20-04-08, 04:46 PM

My Father was born in 1901. He didn't talk much about his service during WW1 except to say that he went to enlist with 3 other boys (they were 17 but Dad was under age at 16) whilst serving mechanical engineering apprenticeships at Leyland Motors. The other 3 were rejected, for whatever reason, but Dad was accepted. He said that he joined the RFC, but never left the UK. He also related a connection with Air Sea Rescue (ASR) but in what capacity I know not, but presumably something to do with engineering. I remember as a small boy in the 50's getting a clockwork plastic toy boat in the form of a Vosper ASR craft for Xmas.
The pics show him c1918 with his mother, and on his own, again c1918. Note the 2 styles of uniform and in particular the black shiney peaked cap.
The RAF and it's ASR Branch were formed in 1918, so I am guessing that he was transfered to the RAF from the RFC. He always sported an RAF badge on the front of the family car!
I assume that entrants into the RFC would have been issued standard army uniform, which would have included the all khaki cap, so why has his cap got a shiney peak? Also the cap badge is not that of the RFC, but would appear to be a bullion badge similar to that of a Petty Officer. This he certainly was not, but why should a private rank be wearing a bullion badge? I have tried to show the badge in the blow up, but it isn't that clear even on the original pic.
Then, what is this badge on his chest? Is this for real? I have never seen this anywhere else, or is it a bit of a lark. Dad was a bit of a practical joker! I am assuming that these pics were taken after his transfer to the RAF, if that was the case. He didn't stay in the service and I assume was discharged c1919.
Any thoughts, comments or help in any way would be greatly appreciated.

tynesideirish · #2 20-04-08, 05:26 PM

Great photo! By the lack of sleeve insignia, he appears to be a 2nd class Air Mechanic by his cap and jacket. His cap badge would be a red crowned encircled cushioned eagle.

I've never seen the chest badge before, certainly not regulation and probably sported for the photo only. May be a paper clasp knife?

oc14 · #3 20-04-08, 06:59 PM

On looking again, the "chest badge" looks like a silk ribbon bearing a red cross - probably a fundraising charity type badge - this one looks to have been caught by the wind just as the photo was taken !

Paul

Jibba Jabba · #4 20-04-08, 07:14 PM

I`m thinking along the lines of your father having service with the Royal Naval Air Service.........just try his name in here and see if you get a hit

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...=*&queryType=1

jeep · #5 30-04-08, 06:59 PM

Thanks for your input boys. JJ, no luck with the archives I'm afraid, but I discount the RNAS anyway, as Dad I am sure only ever mentioned RFC and RAF. The chest badge I think was for the picture, and looking closely at the cap badge there does seem to be the faint outline of an eagle, similar in shape to that worn today as a shoulder badge for the AAC. Would that be correct, and if so has anyone got a pic of this hat badge?

Jibba Jabba · #6 06-05-08, 02:59 PM

Jeep can you tell me your fathers service number?

Thanks.

jeep · #7 07-05-08, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Jeep can you tell me your fathers service number?

Thanks.

JJ. Afraid not. That lost in the mists of time also. However I do remember as a small boy in the 50's dad saying that service personnel never forget their number, and he rattled his off, and it wasn't too long maybe 5? numbers, which would be about right for the period.

ard-ri · #8 07-05-08, 11:16 AM

Jeep, your fathers service number should be on any of his military documents you may have.

ard-ri · #9 07-05-08, 11:25 AM

Looks something like this?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26sa%3DN

scroll down

#10 14-06-08, 02:42 PM

My grandfather enlisted in the Royal Navy in 1914 and was selected for flight training with the RNAS. He was one of very few who survived the war but the bonus was that there were so many photographs and other items of ephemera to see as a small boy enthralled by grandfather's stories. When he died, everything RNAS was handed over to RNAS Yeovilton for their museum and archive. I was astounded at the existing archive already there and, for the researcher, there really was a mine of information. The peaked cap depicted in the family photograph is definitely naval and not military. The 'shiny' peak is typical of naval (not military) issue and with your father's aeronautical connection, he was almost certainly in the RNAS. A visit to Yeovilton and their archive will confirm this. There is bound to be a photograph or two to compare with yours. Regards. David

tynesideirish · #11 15-06-08, 11:09 AM

I don't want to be pedantic but this query was answered in post 2!

He was at the time of the photo an RFC 2nd class Air Mechanic! NOT RNAS.

#12 17-06-08, 01:41 PM

TynesideIrish - Forgive me for being pedantic but where, in known collections , would I find an RFC cap badge of the type worn in the photograph submitted with post 1 of this topic ? I ask this simply to do justice to your 'conclusive' response. Can you refer me to a reference work where this cap badge is identified as RFC ? After 45 years of collecting, one is never to old to learn ! Regards. David

tynesideirish · #13 17-06-08, 03:03 PM

David,
RFC/ RAF transition Service Dress 1918-19. WO ll, NCO's and 1st , 2nd and 3rd Class Air Mechanics wore a cap with Khaki crown and black band, peak and chin strap. All ranks wore a fabric cap badge consisting of a Crown above a circular padded velvet cushion encircled with two twisted threads and bearing an eagle in flight. Airmen wore it in red worsted thread and for Cpl and above Gold wire on a black background.
The Jacket was a khaki 5 buttoned, single breasted garment with buttoned fabric belt. Panel backed without vents. Pleated breast patch pockets and plain patch pockets on the skirt.

I think everyone can agree, the badge is an eagle in flight and not a coiled anchor. The uniform is as described above. So not RNAS as I and Jeep the originator of this thread stated (post 5). No arm badges therefore Air Mechanic. Is RAF Museum Hendon a big enough known collection?
Don't forget there was also a ROYAL FLYING CORPS cap tally in 1913. The RAF badge (similar to the RFC one,) we now know and love came in wear / issue in May 1919.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeep

Thanks for your input boys. JJ, no luck with the archives I'm afraid, but I discount the RNAS anyway, as Dad I am sure only ever mentioned RFC and RAF.

Sources:
Experience backed up by,
RAF Museum Hendon.
Cross & Cockade.
British Air Forces 1914-1918 (2) Cormack.

wardog · #14 17-06-08, 05:17 PM

http://www.britairforce.com/raf_capbadges_1.htm Some RAF cap badges. Cheers, Paul.

jeep · #15 07-07-08, 02:27 PM

Gentlemen. Thank you all for your input. I now consider the thread to be closed; after one last question which Tynesideirish may be able to answer. What is the significance in the two styles of uniform, as there are a number of differences? Was one RFC and the other RAF, a 'parade' dress v 'working' dress or simply a case of evolution i.e. one superseding the other?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

The Jacket was a khaki 5 buttoned, single breasted garment with buttoned fabric belt. Panel backed without vents. Pleated breast patch pockets and plain patch pockets on the skirt.