Volunteer Engineers question

[kingsley]

The other thread on Vol Arty was most interesting and enlightening, so here goes with the Engineers.
It is apparent that, just like the arty, many HP variations were bought by small units right around the empire which are now impossible to document accurately.
The HP in the attached scan came from an old collection in Hobart in the 1950s and I have always given it the benefit of the doubt and called it a Tasmanian plate.
Comments appreciated.

[manchesters]

Sorry, the image is too blurred to read the scrolls.

regards

[fairlie63]

Hi Kingsley,

There is a long-standing acceptance in Tasmanian collecting circles that this style of helmet plate was worn by the Tasmanian Engineers. In fact a couple of variations exist, yours and the one in Grebert's book.

I'm going to go against the grain -

1. Tasmania never had any volunteer engineers - the Tasmanian Engineers were raised in July 1883 as our first partially paid corps, undertaking daylight parades.
2. Dress Regulations 1886 refer only to the 'universal' helmet plate, i.e. Tasmanian Defence Force. It would appear that the official change in title from Tasmanian Engineers to Tasmanian Torpedo Corps was the Hobart Gazette of 16 February 1886, although Torpedo Corps had been in use prior to this (in regard to submarine mining). It is still 'Engineers' in the 1886 dress regulations.
3. Dress Regulations 1887 refer now to Tasmanian Torpedo Corps but do not mention a specific helmet plate - either one had not been selected at the time or they were to wear the 'universal' plate still worn by the infantry.
4. Photographs of the corps taken during the 1890s show the Royal Arms being worn on the blue cloth helmet - no scrolls. I suggest the reason that STVA helmet plates are so rare is that the gun and scrolls were cut off them and used as the new plate for the TTC.

The Tasmanian Torpedo Corps was redesignated Tasmanian Engineers in the Hobart Gazette of 27 December 1898. There was no reason for them to change their helmet plate, nor would it appear that funds for such items were available. We'd just come out of a serious depression, sergeants of artillery wore left arm 'guns' on their right arms, the permanent artillery blokes who qualified for the crossed guns gunnery prizes had to wear crossed rifles instead because the Govt wouldn't purchase guns, and more.

I think the partial-payment provisions of the Defence Act 1885 were put on hold in 1889 or thereabouts and the forces, while still militia, were parading voluntarily. In 1903 when they were passed into the military forces of the Commonwealth they were classed as Volunteers, and as a result there was the big revolt in 1904 when the GOC, Hutton, came down to inspect them and most of the units in southern Tasmania gave him the finger and failed to parade. Mass sackings and disbandments, but they were back on their feet in a couple of years, and getting paid for it.

Some years ago I saw a photograph displayed in the State Archives Office in Murray St, just before it moved next door to the State Library in which an aide-de-camp to the Governor appears to be wearing Engineer full dress with a helmet plate very similar to yours. The photo may have been around Federation in 1901, can't remember now, I just passed the info onto Jeff Cossum at the time for his book on colonial badges.

So maybe, just maybe, the Tasmanian Engineers wore the helmet plate like yours between 1899-1903 or, and the most likely scenario, one or more of the officers purchased their own helmet plates with their outfits as was the custom, and decided to be a bit different - many officers helmet plate variations appear for the Tasmanian defence force - he was photographed with the Governor and from that one photo a totally erroneous opinion has been reached that the whole corps wore this design.

Keith

[badgecollector]

thanks keith
i have always doubted the use of this plate by the tasmanian forces for similar reasons to you but you have explained it very well.
maybe with the existence of that photo of the aid de corps im now questioning my thoughts. might have to add one to the collection
bc

[kingsley]

Keith, thanks again for most interesting detail. As I wrote earlier, the only reason I classed it as Tasmanian was because of its provenance.
Simon, sorry the detail was so poor. The bottom scrolls just say Engineer Volunteers with the two central scrolls having decorative designs.
The cutoff arty HPs are interesting, never heard that before. Did they look like the one in the scan? Have always wondered what it was but assumed it was a British HP unknown to me.