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  #16  
Old 19-09-15, 05:39 PM
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I'm going to suggest that these badges are not corp of commissionaires nor were they for the cadets. I think they were for the Cadet Instructors. Prior to 1920 they (we) were known as the Corp of School Corp Instructor (militia). Or CofC. I think the original cited material was correct. We were thinking of the cadets not the instructors.
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  #17  
Old 19-09-15, 06:05 PM
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How does that explain lack of any RO or GO authorizing such titles? Or, the fact that many of the numbers found on the titles are not Cadet Corps numbers? They fall outside the range of any documented authorized cadet corps? And, the set of numbers I acquired several years ago were from a Corps of Comm. fellow.
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  #18  
Old 19-09-15, 10:38 PM
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As for a lack of ROs or GOs authorizing such badges. I'll give you one example, CIC members up until this year wore a cap badge that wasn't authorized. The cap badge has since been changed back. They were always authorized to be a tri service badge not element specific as they were for 30 years. As for Cadet corp numbers. In the early days of Cadets, numbering was not centralized and sometimes mistakes were often. That is why we have a 72 SHofC cadet corp that is not nearly as old as the number would suggest. Of course it was numbered after the Battalion. A mistake of the day that followed through. There are also early cases of two or more corps having the same number. Cadet Corps have also always been known for just doing their own thing. With the prevailing attitude that it's better to beg for forgiveness than to never do it. If no one cares long enough it becomes entrenched in the corp and stays. As for them falling out side of any authorized number for a corp. There have been over 3000 numbers for a corp across our country since the 1860's. Unless the numbers are higher than that. Even before 1922 there were over 1000 numbers used.
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  #19  
Old 19-09-15, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggins View Post
As for a lack of ROs or GOs authorizing such badges. I'll give you one example, CIC members up until this year wore a cap badge that wasn't authorized. The cap badge has since been changed back. They were always authorized to be a tri service badge not element specific as they were for 30 years. As for Cadet corp numbers. In the early days of Cadets, numbering was not centralized and sometimes mistakes were often. That is why we have a 72 SHofC cadet corp that is not nearly as old as the number would suggest. Of course it was numbered after the Battalion. A mistake of the day that followed through. There are also early cases of two or more corps having the same number. Cadet Corps have also always been known for just doing their own thing. With the prevailing attitude that it's better to beg for forgiveness than to never do it. If no one cares long enough it becomes entrenched in the corp and stays. As for them falling out side of any authorized number for a corp. There have been over 3000 numbers for a corp across our country since the 1860's. Unless the numbers are higher than that. Even before 1922 there were over 1000 numbers used.
I will invoke Hitchen's Razor. Please give specific examples and references.

Phil
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  #20  
Old 19-09-15, 11:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggins View Post
As for a lack of ROs or GOs authorizing such badges. I'll give you one example, CIC members up until this year wore a cap badge that wasn't authorized. The cap badge has since been changed back. They were always authorized to be a tri service badge not element specific as they were for 30 years.
Really? The metal cap and collar badges for all three CIL/CIC elements were available as issue items through clothing stores, complete with NATO stock numbers.

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  #21  
Old 20-09-15, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phillip Herring View Post
Really? The metal cap and collar badges for all three CIL/CIC elements were available as issue items through clothing stores, complete with NATO stock numbers.

Phil
I got mine issued to me also. However they were never authorized. The badge that is my avatar was the only badge authorized for CIL members. With Element specific collar dogs. Cadet instructors have always been a bit of an afterthought. For example, after unification CIL members were authorized uniforms but no budget to get them. It was that lack of really giving a damn from Higher formations that led to things like CSofC and CIL members wearing regimental accouterments. That in turn led to CIC members attached to a highland Cadet corp are now authorized to wear highland kit. It became entrenched as a tradition.
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  #22  
Old 20-09-15, 03:13 AM
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There are C of C numbers well over 3000 that I have seen. After going through literally thousands of docs, including the Cadet Services files held at LAC, it is very likely that corps shoulder titles would be mentioned. But they are not. Especially if there were titles issued on a per person or by corps basis. It is pointed out in a series of docs that the Cadet Services did not have an authorized shoulder title.
The time period that the original post refers to is the very early time period, pre 1914 or into the 20's and 30's. Yes, there are always things done that do not have authorization or slip by approvals. But there number of individual C of C numbers would suggest a comprehensive issue, not something that was done ad hoc. Especially if it was across the geography of Canada.
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  #23  
Old 20-09-15, 11:59 AM
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In reference to titles, they would have to be consistent with the correct designation of the corps at the time. The official name for the cadets was never Cadets of Canada or Corps of Cadets or any other variation. The individual corps were known as Cadet Corps, so Upper Canada College Cadet Corps, etc. The initial designation for the CIL was CSCI, later re-designated the Cadet Services of Canada, (CSC and later CS of C). They did not have authorized metal shoulder titles until 1956.
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  #24  
Old 20-09-15, 12:00 PM
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Some excellent backgroung information on the Cadet Services badges can be found on Milart, https://servicepub.wordpress.com/201...adet-services/
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