Royal Dublin Fusiliers Band

[connaught]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

As suspected the Kildare Militia Regiment became a Rifle Corps in 1855, and when it took up its territorial designation of 3rd (Militia) Battalion RDF in 1881, it retained its black buttons and badges. I have never seen such black badges in the flesh and they must be exceedingly rare.

There are some more, great photos of the band here: http://www.royaldublinfusiliers.com/...otographs.html

Hi Toby, could this be one of the badges here ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royal-Dubl...item519b18c8bc

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by connaught

Hi Toby, could this be one of the badges here ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Royal-Dubl...item519b18c8bc

Yes, that's it and the first one I have ever seen. It looks to be genuine too as white metal would be typical I think and the striking and pre-1902 method of fixture looks good.

It seems criminal to me that the Gaunt Pattern Book Collection is being sold off piecemeal, it makes my skin crawl.

[John Mulcahy]

I have never come across any reference that 3RDF wore blackened insignia.

Anyone got firm evidence?

John

[John Mulcahy]

There is something odd with these badges, I have looked through 'endicis" offerings alledgedly from Gaunts pattern book and I see things blackened that should not be.

Have these items been blackened because of oxidation, badly corroded or other?

John

[John Mulcahy]

As an example this is nonsense

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6th-Innisk...item519b18d2ee

was it blackened by the manufacturer to show relief (I grey many designs (for my work) of packaging models today to show relief) , badly corroded or what?

[Toby Purcell]

I don't know if the 3rd (Reserve) Bn RDF ever wore black insignia John, but the band photo that started this thread certainly shows one (see man seated at far right) and, as there were no volunteer battalions for the regiment, I looked at the militia. Only one of the three erstwhile militia regiments had a Rifle background and that was the Kildare Militia, which apparently became a Rifle Corps in 1855. As it then became the 3rd Bn of the RDF after 1881 and had its base at Naas, it seems possible (logical even) that the blackened badge was issued there. However, in the end that is just speculation based on the fact that the blackened badge had to have a provenance of some kind. I have now written to several RDF web sites to see what can be found out and I await a reply.

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

As an example this is nonsense

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6th-Innisk...item519b18d2ee

was it blackened by the manufacturer to show relief (I grey many designs (for my work) of packaging models today to show relief) , badly corroded or what?

Quite a few look dirty to me.

Rgds,
Thomas.

[peter4447]

I have taken the liberty of adding a better view of the blackened badge from the original photo. There are 29 Bandsmen but only one wearing a blackened badge.
All of the Bandsmen are very young indeed and look to be on Boy's Service before being sent to their Battalion Bands.
Peter

[Donny B.]

[QUOTE=Toby Purcell;131101]As suspected the Kildare Militia Regiment became a Rifle Corps in 1855, and when it took up its territorial designation of 3rd (Militia) Battalion RDF in 1881, it retained its black buttons and badges. I have never seen such black badges in the flesh and they must be exceedingly rare.


I believe this is another one that I have.


Donny B,

[Toby Purcell]

[quote=Donny B.;136453]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

As suspected the Kildare Militia Regiment became a Rifle Corps in 1855, and when it took up its territorial designation of 3rd (Militia) Battalion RDF in 1881, it retained its black buttons and badges. I have never seen such black badges in the flesh and they must be exceedingly rare.


I believe this is another one that I have.


Donny B,

Thanks for posting Donny, it certainly looks like it. Sadly I am not getting any reply from the RDF site as yet. It is interesting to note that both your badge and the one posted via a link by Connaught do not have brazing holes at the rear and have a very solid back, perhaps indicating casting rather than striking. This would seem to indicate that the badge was made of a single metal with the implicit intent to blacken it. That said your badge appears to be all brass and the other appears to be all white metal and yours shows the fitting of tiger and elephant via a split pin. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser!

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by peter4447

I have taken the liberty of adding a better view of the blackened badge from the original photo. There are 29 Bandsmen but only one wearing a blackened badge.
All of the Bandsmen are very young indeed and look to be on Boy's Service before being sent to their Battalion Bands.
Peter

Thank you Peter, it would have made sense for the boys to be trained at the depot before posting to their battalions. It was still the same method used when I last was at a depot in the early 80s, albeit that it was both bandsmen and drummers being trained there.

[ebro]

Donny,
I have always believed the Cast badges were OSD badges and the Bi Metal was OR's.
Perhaps other forum members know?

Eddie

[Donny B.]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

yours shows the fitting of tiger and elephant via a split pin. Things are getting curiouser and curiouser!

Curiouser and curiouser! Yes, indeed. The paint on my badge is quite thick and tends to hide some of the detail. It appears to me as though the badge was blackened and then over painted with a brown. I have not fiddled with the split pin to try to separate the badge parts but it looks to me as though the badge was probably cast and the elephant was cast with the badge. It "appears" that it is only the tiger that has been attached by the split pin. Does that make any sense?



Eddie, I bow to your greater knowledge but I, too, would love to hear what other forum members have to say on cast and bimetal badges.

Donny B.

[ebro]

Donny,
That wire has been there for 100+ years. Dont take it apart now!
Eddie

[DUBLIN-13]

Originally Posted by peter4447

Recently acquired this photo which, I believe, shows a Band of the Royal Dublin Fusilers. Apart from an NCO (a Cpl who wears a wound stripe on his left cuff) the Band is made up of young boys so I assume this was taken at a Training Depot, probably c.1917/18. No WW1 medal ribbons are being worn.
Although the number is not completely clear it looks as though the Bass Drum belonged to the 1st Bn Royal Dublin Fusiliers.
The Lyre Badges all carry a scroll beneath and I am wondering if anyone has come across these before and knows what the wording is on them? One also appears to have a cloth coloured backing.
Brass cap badges and buttons are worn although one of the young Band members wears a blackened cap badge and a couple of others are also wearing blackened buttons.
Grateful for any assistance with this one.
Many thanks
Peter4447

I have read this thread with great interest and I came across this photo that I had saved from one place or another but these two Dublin Fusiliers seem to have Lyre badges on their sleves. I have also attached two medal index cards and shows Pte Double was a bandsman , he was KIA in WW1.