17/21st collars, silver plate or silver?

[GriffMJ]

Mac/Dave

The 21st Lancers colour is a very blue version ... Mac, why the army blue cuffs on the modern kit ;0)

[mac mcconnell]

Hi Griff

I have no idea same as officers don't were collars, But the warrants and Sergeants do have white sleeves and collar badges.

As for the French Gray I have never heard the 17th off white called that I remember being told Marble white.

In many pictures the French Grey comes up a very light vibrant blue grey but in reality its quiet a low key colour.

Mac

[GriffMJ]

Mac/Dave

The 17th's facing are described as "white" in the dress regs...... and "French Grey" is used to describe the 21st Lancers facings. (far more blue than grey to me)

[mac mcconnell]

Hi Griff
Funny old world as Dave said the white is a form of French Grey, strange that a regiment has two very different colours called the same, but you live and learn.

Rgs Mac

[colin 17]

The 17th Lancers have never had French grey facings, they have always been white. French grey is a pale blue grey colour and has been used for a long time in Indian Cavalry regt and East Riding yeomanry and Roughriders uniforms. It hasn't been a off white colour. I have two 17th Ors tunics and an officers one as well (all circa 1900) and the facings are very white. I also have Mick Holtbys mess dress and the vest for it is definitely French grey. Colin

[mac mcconnell]

Hi Colin
I have to admit to being perplexed at all this I have also been told by another source a most repeatable one that some times the white is referred to as French Grey in the Dress Regs.
I served in the 17th/21st 1980 to Amalgamation and a further 10 in QRL it always looked white to me, I was on one occasion told it was Marble white. To day was the first time I have been told its French grey.


I can see a copy of dress regs coming up soon.

Rgs Mac

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by mac mcconnell

I can see a copy of dress regs coming up soon.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=42271

[colin 17]

I have copies of most of the dress regs and most say "regimental facings". 1900 regs have white for the trouser stripes for 17L. 1902 dress regs for "WOs and NCOs etc" has 17th as white and 21st as French grey. 1934 regs have "regt facings" again but does mention white. I cant find anywhere official where it says anything other than white for 17thL.
On another note 1934 dress regs has 17th21st mess dress as blue for jacket , collar and cuffs with only white for the vest.

Colin

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by colin 17

On another note 1934 dress regs has 17th21st mess dress as blue for jacket , collar and cuffs with only white for the vest.

Colin

A bit like this then ....Colin I would imagine that when they were told "Blue" the Regiment chose their own regimental colour on the collars.....as that was "within" regulations (it was still blue, "Oxford Blue")

** I think the *Oxford blue" might have come from the tunic colour of the 21st Lancers (with the French Grey of the plastron and facings)? Looking at the original item it does not look like the typical army blue?

[Lancer 17]

Hi Mac

Sorry I have been quiet but have been very busy.

Re facing colours I have copies of the dress regs for 1846 which says white stripes and the 1900 dress regs which says white plumes, and the trousers have a white stripe not gold lace.

So I'd say its white stripes.

Mac, I will scan the Lancers dress regs when I can and Email them to you.

Cheers

Phil.

[mac mcconnell]

Hi Phil
I have always been told the Facing colour is white, a few comments back was the first time I have ever herd the 17th white referred to as French grey.
I quizzed Mick Holtby over it and he to has never herd of it being called French grey.
I still stand by white as do most I believe.

send you a pm soon.

Rgs Mac

[mac mcconnell]

Hi Griff
That 21st troopers jacket is very nice ,but very bright the French grey is more a grey blue then a sky blue. That tunic is under a lot of light in a case.I have attached a picture of Major Waltons 17th/21st mess dress waist coat. I am not an expert on how colours fade but I did see a tunic the other day and like the side hat I just purchased its quiet a dull blue grey.

[GriffMJ]

Mac

The French grey on that waistcoat is spot on..... if you look at the period 21st Lancers Staff pattern cap the colours match. My observation would be that the material used on the Plastron and facings of the ORs tunic has either been light damaged or has a different material type and therefore a different shade.

I still think that the "Oxford Blue" comes from the colour of the 21st's Tunic

[mac mcconnell]

Further to my last heres my 21st side hat next to a 17th and a picture in normal light and bright light. Did we have any more luck on the original substance of the thread the Mess jacket

[GriffMJ]

Mac

Great FFSCap(s)

Getting back to the jacket and waistcoat....... The 1934 Dress regulations state that the mess jacket for the 17th/21st Lancers was "all blue" with a white waistcoat. Hopefully the 1934 Dress Regs (with 1938 amendments) will turn up today or tomorrow..... so I can give a definitive on the spec. But, it looks like "my" assumption was correct

21st Lancers colours on the Tunic...