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  #1  
Old 19-04-17, 10:18 PM
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Default Lieutenant Colonel A B Charters DSO CMG. Otago Regiment,

© IWM (HU 119826) Lieutenant Colonel A.B. Charters, DSO. CMG. Otago Regiment, New Zealand Expeditionary Force.

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  #2  
Old 20-04-17, 08:33 AM
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The men of the Otago regiment referred to Charters as the ''alphabetical bastard'' , on account of his initials A.B.C
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Old 20-04-17, 09:14 AM
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Hello Jo,

Je pense que le cap badge sur le Lemon squeezer est celui du 17th Ruahine?

Hello Jo,

I think the cap badge on the lemon squeezer is that of the 17th Ruahine?

Have a nice day in Québec

Jean-Paul
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  #4  
Old 20-04-17, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jean-paul Vermersch View Post
Hello Jo,

Je pense que le cap badge sur le Lemon squeezer est celui du 17th Ruahine?

Hello Jo,

I think the cap badge on the lemon squeezer is that of the 17th Ruahine?

Have a nice day in Québec

Jean-Paul

Yes it is the 17th Ruahine company .Charters transferred from the Wellington Infantry ,to become C.O of the 1st Otago Battalion.
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  #5  
Old 20-04-17, 12:46 PM
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Encore une fois merci Jean-Paul pour votre commentaire,c'est apprécié.

Thank youu pukman for your comment,it is appreciated.

Jo
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  #6  
Old 20-04-17, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukman View Post
The men of the Otago regiment referred to Charters as the ''alphabetical bastard'' , on account of his initials A.B.C
.....refered as ....."alphabetical bastard"....because.......

Jo
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  #7  
Old 21-04-17, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltigeur View Post
.....refered as ....."alphabetical bastard"....because.......

Jo


Yes I can see how this has been ''lost in translation''


A bastard can be a colloquial term in New Zealand for a despicable ,undesirable or unlikeable character .


Combined with the first three letters in the English language , ABC ,and corresponding to his initials ,we have some New Zealand army humour from WW1 .


I have a WW1 diary ,belonging to a Sergeant in the 1st Battalion Otago Infantry ,which he describes Charters as ''useless as a commander '' and ''should be in a glass case'' ,amongst other disparaging comments .His words not mine
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Old 21-04-17, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pukman View Post
Yes I can see how this has been ''lost in translation''


A bastard can be a colloquial term in New Zealand for a despicable ,undesirable or unlikeable character .


Combined with the first three letters in the English language , ABC ,and corresponding to his initials ,we have some New Zealand army humour from WW1 .


I have a WW1 diary ,belonging to a Sergeant in the 1st Battalion Otago Infantry ,which he describes Charters as ''useless as a commander '' and ''should be in a glass case'' ,amongst other disparaging comments .His words not mine

Thank you very much pukman for an interesting "translation" of your comment.
You Kiwis have very unusual sense of humour.
Jo
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  #9  
Old 24-04-17, 11:54 AM
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The photo of Alexander Burnett Charters wearing badges of the 17th Ruahine Regiment and his felt hat in “Boy Scout (B.P.)”style is very important.
Charters had a long and decorated military career starting at the age of 14 with the Christchurch Queens Rifle Cadets.
On the 26th May 1909, Charters was appointed Acting Major of the 5th Battalion Wellington (Centre or Ruahine) Rifle Volunteers.
With the transition from Volunteer to the Territorial system, Charters was appointed Lieutenant Colonel of the 9th (W.E.C) Regiment, 2nd Battalion on the 21st January 1912.

For those who are not familiar, the 9th (W.E.C) Regiment, 2nd Battalion became the 17th (Ruahine) Regiment on the 27th March 1914.
The following extract is from a letter written by Brigadier-General Sir Herbert Hart. —
“When the Kitchener Territorial scheme came into operation in 1911-12, units from Wairarapa and Bush Districts became the 2nd (Battalion) Hawkes Bay (9th) regiment. Two years later there was a reorganisation and we were formed into a new regiment, the Ruahine, including one company from the Hutt and Petone. I was then a company commander and at the first get together of officers of the new regiment many matters of procedure, dress and badges were discussed. The other three regiments of the brigade – Taranaki, Hawkes Bay and Wellington west Coast – each had a background and tradition going back to the Maori War. We had nothing and I said, if we wished to be distinctive and smart looking we should copy the hat worn by the S.A.C. The others present had not seen the hat, so then and there I took one as issued and worn by the territorials, straightened the brim and gave the crown the familiar four dents. They were duly impressed by the appearance and it was decided to apply it for use by the regiment.”

Brigadier-General Sir Herbert Hart interestingly is accepted by historians as having played a part in the design of the 9th (W.E.C) Regiment badge, however it was the NZ Boy Scout Cadets who were the first and only unit in the 1912 NZ Dress Regulations to be allowed to wear the felt hat with a peaked crown in “Boy Scout (B.P.)”style. The Ruahine Regiment however were the first New Zealand Regiment to unofficially adopt the felt hat with a peaked crown, before Colonel Malone officially adopted the lemon squeezer shape for the whole of the Wellington Regiment (NZEF) on the 24th August 1914.

The following document dated the 8th July 1914, was sent by Lieutenant-Colonel A. B. Charters the Commanding Officer of the 17th (Ruahine) Regiment, to the Officer Commanding the Wellington Infantry Brigade, requesting permission for approval of a new regimental badge and motto.
The Regimental badge and motto of the 17th Ruahine Regiment was officially approved by General Godley on the 14th July 1914, just 21 days before Great Britain declared war on Germany.



The following is the original sketch that was submitted by Colonel Charters and approved by General Godley.

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  #10  
Old 24-04-17, 11:58 AM
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These photos of Alexander Charters were taken on December 1914 at Trentham Camp (left) and early 1915 Egypt (right).
From the photos it appears the 17th Ruahine badges were not available before Charters embarked with the 2nd Reinforcements on the 14 December 1914.



The following photo was taken near the NZ Base Depot in Alexandria between April and December 1915. Charters pictured on the left is wearing a large size Ruahine badge on his sun helmet.
Interestingly, I have a copy of a letter dated 18th February 1916 from a soldier in the NZ Veterinary Corps to his local Member of Parliament, which mentions. —
“The Ruahine Regiment arrived in Egypt without badges but on this being brought to the Sultans (Hussein Kamel of Egypt) notice he presented the corps with a complete set.”
This would explain why the 17th (Ruahine) Regiment was the only NZ unit to be issued with a helmet badge.

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  #11  
Old 24-04-17, 02:51 PM
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Thank you very much for this interesting information about the man and the unit.Really appreciated.
Jo
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