Help on Formation Signs in BAOR

[mjm34]

I'm looking for some help here on the formation signs in use in BAOR from the mid fifties.

When BAOR/1 Corps was expanded in the mid 1950s it consisted of 5 AGRA, 11 Engr Gp, 2 Inf Div, 6 Armd Div, 7 Armd Div and 11 Armd Div.

5 AGRA & 11 Engr Gp: Anyone any idea of the formation signs?

When 2nd Inf Div was reformed in Germany from 53 Div it was allocated its "traditional" brigades

2 Inf Div: White crossed keys on black
4 Gds Inf Bde: Guards all seeing eye with IV below in white
5 Inf Bde: White crossed bayonet and key on red with blue 5 above
6 Inf Bde: White crossed bayonet and key on blue with red 6 above

6 Armd Div: White mailed fist on black
20 Armd Bde: White mailed fist on blue?
61 Lorried Inf Bde: ????

7 Armd Div: Red Jerboa on black
7 Armd Bde: As 7 Div?
31 Lorried Inf Bde: ????

11 Armd Div: Black bull on yellow
33 Armd Bde: Did they use the wartime sign of inverted green triangle above a black triangle or did they use a new one?
91 Lorried Inf Bde: ????

Later 4 Inf Div was reformed again being allotted its "traditional" Bdes formed from the ex Armd Divs Lorried Inf Bdes

4 Inf Div: Red quadranted circle on white
10 Inf Bde: ????
11 Inf Bde: Gold battleaxe on black
12 Inf Bde: Gold chinese looking stylised H on black

Also at about the same time 21 Ind Inf Bde appeared. Anyone any idea of its formation sign?

Sorry that there's a lot of questions there but I'm confident that with the vast knowledge available on this forum that most will get answered. If anyone is able to post examples that would be even better.

Thanks in advance.

Mike

[jeep]

Here is 12 Inf Brigade.

[badjez]

Mike,

Looking through Waring's pamphlet provides no answers. None of the units are listed apart from a sign worn by 5 AGRA (AA), which was a Blue square: red arrow & red wheel. I'm not sure if this was a post-war formation sign though.

I do know that some infantry units retained their Training Brigade FS. I've seen pictures of 1 Bn, Royal Lincs wearing the Midland Brigade FS whilst posted to BAOR in the early 1950's. If this wasn't intentional they would have been ordered to remove them prior to posting overseas.

Regards, Stephen.

[grey_green_acorn]

2 Infantry Division, 5 Infantry Brigade, 6 Infantry Brigade (silk), 6 Infantry Brigade (printed)

[grey_green_acorn]

If you have not already seen it I recommend a copy of "The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after): An Organizational History 1947 -2004" by Graham E Watson and Richard A Rinaldi. Tiger Lily Publications 2005 ISBN 0-9720296-9-9
The book contains masses of detailed ORBAT information, dates and locations of formations and units.

I am now wondering when Brigade Formation Signs were introduced and worn in BAOR? I suspect that following WW2 practice, Brigades (unless Independant) wore the sign of their parent Division until probably the late 1950s or early 1960s when BAOR reformed into a much reduced number of 'Brigade Groups'. The Lorried Infantry Brigades were gone by then which might explain the absence of Formation Signs.

[lettman]

31 Inf Bde wore a black jerboa on a red oval. I believe the idea was a melding of the insignia of 7 Armd Div and the red oval of 44 Inf Div (the latter worn by 131 Bde in WW2, of which 31 Bde was the 'heir').

[peter seaman]

Good morning Mike,

Ref: 61st Lorried Infantry Brigade, The wartime 61st Independant Infantry Brigade was composed of the 2nd, 7th and 10th Battalions of the Rifle Brigade. The sign was a black and white strung bugle horn surmounted by a crown. Between the bugle strings the number 95. The desgin was set on a square of rifle green and black material divided diagonally.
Regards,
Peter

[mjm34]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

If you have not already seen it I recommend a copy of "The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after): An Organizational History 1947 -2004" by Graham E Watson and Richard A Rinaldi. Tiger Lily Publications 2005 ISBN 0-9720296-9-9
The book contains masses of detailed ORBAT information, dates and locations of formations and units.

I am now wondering when Brigade Formation Signs were introduced and worn in BAOR? I suspect that following WW2 practice, Brigades (unless Independant) wore the sign of their parent Division until probably the late 1950s or early 1960s when BAOR reformed into a much reduced number of 'Brigade Groups'. The Lorried Infantry Brigades were gone by then which might explain the absence of Formation Signs.

Thanks for this, but it is really the formation signs that I am trying to find as I already have a good idea of the Orbat. I am also beginning to suspect that you may be right about the WWII practice of Bdes using the Div formation signs continuing later than I thought.

Incidently, I have a copy of "The British Army in Germany...." and have found it to be riddled with errors.

[mjm34]

Originally Posted by peter seaman

Good morning Mike,

Ref: 61st Lorried Infantry Brigade, The wartime 61st Independant Infantry Brigade was composed of the 2nd, 7th and 10th Battalions of the Rifle Brigade. The sign was a black and white strung bugle horn surmounted by a crown. Between the bugle strings the number 95. The desgin was set on a square of rifle green and black material divided diagonally.
Regards,
Peter

Thanks Peter
However I don't believe that the 61st Lorried Inf Bde in 6 Armd Div was a direct decendent of the wartime 61st Bde as it was only formed in the UK in 1951 before moving to Germany in 1952.

[mjm34]

Thanks Jeep and Acorn for the pix. They confirm formation signs that I already knew about.

[mjm34]

Originally Posted by lettman

31 Inf Bde wore a black jerboa on a red oval. I believe the idea was a melding of the insignia of 7 Armd Div and the red oval of 44 Inf Div (the latter worn by 131 Bde in WW2, of which 31 Bde was the 'heir').

Thanks Lettman. Looks like that could be a possible.

[2 Black Bands]

Today I’ve seen a steel British Army Helmet which apparently came from Germany...it has an inverted elongated green triangle on one side.....I’m struggling to find what it means

[leigh kitchen]

Representing the green hackle of the Royal Irish Fusiliers?
Edit to add or of Royal Irish Rangers?

[leigh kitchen]

Edit - double post.
Possibility it may represent the green rifles cap (the LI called it a shako?) plume of the LI, but I think RIF more likely.

[engr9266]

Just seen this post. I have these as 11 Engr Gp, both in felt & printed. Is this what you are after?