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#1
20-12-23, 11:37 AM
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Formation patches, good or fake.
These are badges I have no knowledge about at all. They came to me with some metal cap badges.
Are these cloth formation badges genuine? Any help gratefully received. Thanks. John 
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#2
20-12-23, 02:34 PM
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the blue cross on a red shield, is an original printed formation badge for the 21st army group.
I am unfamiliar with the other two, for 1st and 2nd infantry divisions, are of a form I do not know anything about, both are embroidered on felt which is I think a real variant, but not one I have seen
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Regards, Jerry
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#3
23-12-23, 09:25 AM
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Thanks Jerry.
John
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#4
23-12-23, 04:37 PM
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The red crossed badge is for the British 1st Army and the blue for the 2nd Army, during WW2. If they are good or bad is another problem.
Marc
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I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.
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#5
25-12-23, 09:30 AM
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The 1st Army badge appears to be of a type that appears in "British Army Cloth Insignia 1940 To The Present" by Brian Leigh Davis and in "WW2 British Formation Badges" by Bruno Boulanger, the latter describes it as "1942 pattern".
Neither book shows the reverse of the badges. I've had one of the type shown in the books for around 35-40 years, bought from a coin and medal shop in Cambridge, the seller said it was part of the stock of a local military tailors that had closed down. Last edited by leigh kitchen; 25-12-23 at 09:46 AM. Reason: Image added.
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#7
28-12-23, 06:33 AM
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Hi team
The 1st Army has that soft white backing which is a fuseable stabalizer also known as "pellon",which has been used worldwide for the last 30 plus years in the textile industry. I dont beleive they had or used this fusable during the war. Below is DZ 4 Regt AAC as an example. So I beleive the patch shown is modern era. Phill
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#9
28-12-23, 02:23 PM
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I haven't heard of the term "pellon" but I've seen badges with what I think is that as backing but in grey, notably a variety of Croatian produced badges around 1999/2000.
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#10
28-12-23, 07:33 PM
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Hi Liegh
I first came across this collecting US patches that only one company produced patches with grey pellon backing c 2001 onwards. Since then UK has been using for woven DZ/TRF flashs since the 1990's , you can get grey , black and differant weights and styles of pellon backing, it might also come under a differant name in each country. Many sew shops that use computer generated embroidery machines use it due to the quick nature of their business as seen in Afghanistan and Iraq. What the general public is use to seeing it are rolls of paper hand towels. Note woven union jack , add stabalizer then merrow edge and it becomes a more durable "patch" , which you can then add velcro. cheers Phill
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#11
28-12-23, 07:57 PM
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__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
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#12
28-12-23, 08:27 PM
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Hi Tim
Yes ,there are however differant wieghts ie a lighter thinner variant for badges as oppsed to others that are for heavier fabrics. Again its used as a stiffener , to stabalize the back of a patch and modern woven designed badges tend to have that style of backing. Phill
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