W. Surrey Militia

[Keith Blakeman]

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/BJWBWC/sett...896-BJWBWC.jpg

The soldier on the far right appears to be wearing a white metal Queen's collar badge in his field service cap. This would be the pattern with the rectangular base.

[Mercian]

Thanks for posting the photo, a militia stuff is not very common. I know it was quite common at that time to wear a collar badge in the field service cap for OR's as some regiments did not have an official cap badge. Of interest is the small M under the officers pips, you read about these things, but it's nice to see proof.

[grumpy]

Might well be a Pay Parade and the old soldier paying close attention has three fascinating chevrons. Please can anyone date the photo fairly closely? Obviously pre-1909 but .........?

This from my notes:

From 1889 at the latest, Regulations for the Militia prescribe badges, ‘re-enlistment stripes’ to be worn on the left arm below the elbow, point upwards. By the regulations of 1893 their use had been extended to re-engagement, which implied continuity of service, four years at a time. This arrangement was continued in 1896 but ended in 1901 when the ledgers of the Royal Army Clothing Department recorded that this use was to be superceded by the use of a four-pointed white star to be worn on the right arm, hitherto a mark of a proficient sergeant of the Volunteer Force. This may be in error, as no example of such wearing has ever surfaced as a photograph. There could be confusion with the five-point star signifying multiples of five years efficient service in the Volunteer Force. At the same time, 1901, militiamen came under the Regular Army rules for good conduct badges and the extra pay that went with them, but this probably did not last long after the regulars lost their own extra good conduct pay [but not the badges] in 1903.

[Keith Blakeman]

Originally Posted by grumpy

Might well be a Pay Parade and the old soldier paying close attention has three fascinating chevrons. Please can anyone date the photo fairly closely? Obviously pre-1909 but .........?

This from my notes:

From 1889 at the latest, Regulations for the Militia prescribe badges, ‘re-enlistment stripes’ to be worn on the left arm below the elbow, point upwards. By the regulations of 1893 their use had been extended to re-engagement, which implied continuity of service, four years at a time. This arrangement was continued in 1896 but ended in 1901 when the ledgers of the Royal Army Clothing Department recorded that this use was to be superceded by the use of a four-pointed white star to be worn on the right arm, hitherto a mark of a proficient sergeant of the Volunteer Force. This may be in error, as no example of such wearing has ever surfaced as a photograph. There could be confusion with the five-point star signifying multiples of five years efficient service in the Volunteer Force. At the same time, 1901, militiamen came under the Regular Army rules for good conduct badges and the extra pay that went with them, but this probably did not last long after the regulars lost their own extra good conduct pay [but not the badges] in 1903.

I think it's 1896 from memory.

Out of interest what would be the role of the man at the back with the grenade badges?

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

I think it's 1896 from memory.

Out of interest what would be the role of the man at the back with the grenade badges?

Looks like Royal Engineers.

regards

[grumpy]

I think he is an improperly dressed young officer ....... loook at shape pocket flaps, facing colour collar.

[button undone].

If 1896 is correct then the old soldier has re-engaged/enlisted 3 times, on top of 4/5 years initial commitment, so could have about 16 years service.

[Toby Purcell]

Superb mix of undress frocks worn by all ranks, including at far right an officer (wearing a staff forage cap) in the Norfolk type with pleats down the front. The officer with grenade collars and cap badge might also be a fusilier. I think that the date 1896 is about right.

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Keith Blakeman

http://c7.alamy.com/comp/BJWBWC/sett...896-BJWBWC.jpg

The soldier on the far right appears to be wearing a white metal Queen's collar badge in his field service cap. This would be the pattern with the rectangular base.

Originally Posted by Mercian

Thanks for posting the photo, a militia stuff is not very common. I know it was quite common at that time to wear a collar badge in the field service cap for OR's as some regiments did not have an official cap badge. Of interest is the small M under the officers pips, you read about these things, but it's nice to see proof.

A bit late on this one…

Great photo and certainly appears to be 3rd VB West Surrey; the FSC badge with the rectangular base:

3D52EE0B-A4A4-41D5-9EBB-F79A1F540E47.jpg

…and the inscription just behind the officer’s right leg:

2B511DFC-8799-44B1-B5DA-6AAD44793B5C.jpg

This badge was officially approved on 10-10-1894 for: ‘Rank & File, Field Service Cap Badge, in German Silver.’

Great thread.

JT

[Jelly Terror]

…completely missed what looks like the ‘3 W. SURREY’ shoulder strap. Derrrr!


3A6EFDEF-6659-4AAF-B755-9BB13DD0F642.jpeg

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Jelly Terror

…completely missed what looks like the ‘3 W. SURREY’ shoulder strap. Derrrr!


Attachment 268072

Yes, the Militia battalions wore the number above their titles (in effect the equivalent of the officers M) and after 1907 that continued with the new gilding metal titles to be worn on full dress shoulder straps, as well as service dress. It took me a while to understand why “numerals” were referred to in regular army clothing regulations. It was because the regulations encompassed the militia too (but not Territorial Force).