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  #16  
Old 29-01-18, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
Even if its not modelled off the common faked badge, the quality is definitely crap.
Andy
I wonder if it not the work of that shister, that does the other, stamped " Silver " badges ?
Andy,
PM sent.
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  #17  
Old 30-01-18, 06:41 PM
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If this is the case, who and why had the badge cast and then assume sent to the Assay Office, or faked the Hallmarks. It seems a lot of work to make what seems to all to be a fake and being sold for fairly modest cost. I think I am somewhat relieved that I really no longer actively collect, what a nightmare for today's collectors! Regards, Clive.

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From the centre photograph in the original post, I think it is a just single piece of silver, crudely cast, very basic silver wire lugs with the marks applied directly to it's reverse.
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  #18  
Old 31-01-18, 08:33 AM
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Well, I can only go off the photograph, but, you should clearly be able to see if it is cast in a single piece, I would be amazed if, as was suggested, the hallmarks have actually been applied to another piece of silver and then that has been added to the reverse of the badge, that would actually be very difficult to do.

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If this is the case, who and why had the badge cast and then assume sent to the Assay Office, or faked the Hallmarks. It seems a lot of work to make what seems to all to be a fake and being sold for fairly modest cost. I think I am somewhat relieved that I really no longer actively collect, what a nightmare for today's collectors! Regards, Clive.
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  #19  
Old 31-01-18, 08:36 PM
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Well, I can only go off the photograph, but, you should clearly be able to see if it is cast in a single piece, I would be amazed if, as was suggested, the hallmarks have actually been applied to another piece of silver and then that has been added to the reverse of the badge, that would actually be very difficult to do.
I agree with you Frank 100%. Why they even bothered to do a cast copy of a Fake badge?????
Andy
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  #20  
Old 01-02-18, 12:17 AM
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Brendan O'Carroll in his Kiwi Scorpions book has this specififc badge design described and illustrated as: 'Reproduction LRDG badges produced in white alloy and bronze. These were made in the 1970's by Russell King Badges for the British LRDG Association.'
This to me implies the Association was OK with this design differing from the original badges, perhaps we collectors are overthinking originality?
Mind you O'Carroll doesn't mention hallmarked silver but I can imagine this hallmarked one being made for a veteran or a relative, possibly as a private one-off commision.

The notion that a bona fide hallmark is grafted into a bogus badge seems practically impossible to me, wouldn't the silver need to be (semi-)liquid to seamlessly fuse and the hallmarks then lose their detail? Perhaps this might work on something larger, but on something this small?
If made to decieve, wouldn't it be easier to fake the stamps? Why isn't the maker mark yet identified?

Rgds, Thomas

Last edited by fougasse1940; 01-02-18 at 12:39 AM.
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  #21  
Old 01-02-18, 08:35 AM
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Indeed, it's a badge not a piece of Georgian tableware.

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I agree with you Frank 100%. Why they even bothered to do a cast copy of a Fake badge?????
Andy
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  #22  
Old 01-02-18, 10:55 AM
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Thank you for your observations Thomas, and others too. The seller, who I have known for years, was unsure if the badge was WW2 or post-WW2, due to the tampering with the Hallmark, and as it was not very expensive I thought worth a punt. It is clearly post-WW2 and my own view is that at some time someone deliberately messed with the date letter of the Hallmark, at that time to deceive. It may still of course be a fake, however I will keep it in my own box of questionable items, there are a few after the last 45 years or so of collecting! Regards, Clive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Brendan O'Carroll in his Kiwi Scorpions book has this specififc badge design described and illustrated as: 'Reproduction LRDG badges produced in white alloy and bronze. These were made in the 1970's by Russell King Badges for the British LRDG Association.'
This to me implies the Association was OK with this design differing from the original badges, perhaps we collectors are overthinking originality?
Mind you O'Carroll doesn't mention hallmarked silver but I can imagine this hallmarked one being made for a veteran or a relative, possibly as a private one-off commision.

The notion that a bona fide hallmark is grafted into a bogus badge seems practically impossible to me, wouldn't the silver need to be (semi-)liquid to seamlessly fuse and the hallmarks then lose their detail? Perhaps this might work on something larger, but on something this small?
If made to decieve, wouldn't it be easier to fake the stamps? Why isn't the maker mark yet identified?

Rgds, Thomas
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  #23  
Old 01-02-18, 07:47 PM
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Theres another on e-bay just stamped " silver ", the fake pattern too.
Andy
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  #24  
Old 01-02-18, 08:52 PM
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Clive, whatever it purports to be I think we can all agree that it wasn't worn by an active serving member during the war if that's what you mean by fake.

Rgds, Thomas

Last edited by fougasse1940; 01-02-18 at 09:00 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-02-18, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Brendan O'Carroll in his Kiwi Scorpions book has this specififc badge design described and illustrated as: 'Reproduction LRDG badges produced in white alloy and bronze. These were made in the 1970's by Russell King Badges for the British LRDG Association.'
This to me implies the Association was OK with this design differing from the original badges, perhaps we collectors are overthinking originality?
Mind you O'Carroll doesn't mention hallmarked silver but I can imagine this hallmarked one being made for a veteran or a relative, possibly as a private one-off commision.

The notion that a bona fide hallmark is grafted into a bogus badge seems practically impossible to me, wouldn't the silver need to be (semi-)liquid to seamlessly fuse and the hallmarks then lose their detail? Perhaps this might work on something larger, but on something this small?
If made to decieve, wouldn't it be easier to fake the stamps? Why isn't the maker mark yet identified?

Rgds, Thomas
Thomas
This association, does or did it have serving members of the LRDG ?
Andy
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  #26  
Old 01-02-18, 09:37 PM
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Even if the association were happy with a slightly different pattern, surely they would have expected better quality than the one shown !? To be honest if i were a member of this association, i wouldn't accept a different pattern. Why would you need to ?
Andy
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  #27  
Old 01-02-18, 09:43 PM
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There are 2 on e-bay now, both apparently " silver ". Both of the Fake pattern, but at least the quality is better on these 2 !?
Andy
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  #28  
Old 01-02-18, 10:32 PM
arnhem2280 arnhem2280 is offline
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Default LRDG Silver Badge

The LRDG Association at the time the badges were made had a number of ex members of the LRDG. I did post photos of the badges that were produced for the Association last year but cannot find my post at the moment.
The badges were produced by Russell King with the blessing of the Association.

Cheers

Arnhem
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  #29  
Old 02-02-18, 08:52 AM
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Hi,

This is a very poor quality silver badge, hard to imagine that it could have been officially made for a veteran association.

Best regards .. Herve
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  #30  
Old 02-02-18, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by arnhem2280 View Post
I did post photos of the badges that were produced for the Association last year but cannot find my post at the moment.
Link: http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=50112

Rgds, Thomas
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