Borden AFV school 1938...

[WJ Miller]

I was researching an Essex Tank Regt. vet today and came across this photo at their association website. Interesting mix of uniforms and insignia, most notable is that the Essex are not issued their badges yet and are all wearing General list "maple leafs"!?

http://wrassoc.homestead.com/purpose_photo.html

Scroll down for close detail views of both halves of the panoramic photo.
Major F.F. Worthington, the father of the Canadian Armoured Corps is shown wearing PPCLI insignia on his newly issued black beret!

[Voltigeur]

Really nice photo Bill. Of special note is Lt.Andrews,PPCLI, future CO of the Calgary(Tank) Regt. at Dieppe.
Jo

[WJ Miller]

Hi Jo,

Re: Lt. Andrews. I should have caught that! I imagine that many or most of the officers and NCO's in this photo went on to serve with distinction and rise through the ranks during the war. See any other names stand out?

I have one of these large panoramic photos from the Borden School, I'll have to check but I think it is course No. 9 (1940). Again, many interesting uniforms and badges, when I have a moment I'll scan some details from it and post. UNfortunately it is NOT named, but I think the clarity of detail from the negative is even better than the linked photo...

I notice in the photo on the Essex site, that some of the Sgt's in the back row have some sort of circular (distinguishing?) patch above their chevrons. Any idea what that patch is?

Bill.

[Voltigeur]

Sorry Bill,can't help you ,on both counts.When I saw the "thingy" over the ranks stripes (I asked myself the same question)........maybe some kind of award.???
Jo

[Bill A]

The dicing on the Argyll Light Infantry (Tank) forage caps is an interesting uniform detail. Too bad the detail is not clear enough to see if the ALI badges are the TANK pattern. Odd rank on the one major, still on his cuff as circa 1918. I was under the impression that the rank was changed back to be worn on the shoulder by the end of the First World War.
(That has got to be an oxymoron if there ever was one, Light Inf / Tank)

[Voltigeur]

Remember Bill (A) that those officers and ncos,of the ALI, became the first cadre of the CAC and I doubt that they already had the "new" designation made up on the badge.So IMHO i would suggest that they still had the old ALI cap badge. One question for you two, why did the ALI was the only canadian unit with a distinctive cap????
Jo

[boots and saddles]

It looks like that F14 student officer is wearing a Prince Albert & Battleford Volunteer badge & is that a Hastie P on his right?

[Bill A]

That badge on the sergeants in the back row may be the Instructional Cadre worsted badge. The only ones who appear to be wearing the badge are nco's, which would be appropriate for the IC badge.

[Voltigeur]

Bill, I will take your word for it since that period is unknown to me. Ray, I beg to differ with you on the subject of F14, the collars don't look like the PA&BV collars which are miniature of the cap badge and yes, the other officer is a H&PER.
Jo

[DavidS]

Both Maz. & Tripp note that, although the Argylls were redesignated "Tank" in 1936, the "TANK" badge was not authorized until 1941. I've blown up & run the Argyll badges through S-Spline and as pixelated as they are, I don't see any hint of a bar on the badges in this pic.

A couple of other interesting things: Worthington's PPCLI badge looks distinctly like the bi-metal version (voided at any rate) that I had always been under the impression was a late-WW2 pattern, as does the other PPCLI officer pictured. Neat to see these in 1938. Also, a lone Staff Clerks badge in the back row, right.

Another question while I'm at it. I've heard that no one has ever seen a picture in which an actual C56a CFVTC badge appears being worn. Anyone ever seen a CFVTC badge in a photo?

[Voltigeur]

'morning gents. Just one thing I noticed, nothing big. On the first photograph, first nco on the left,second row, M-1 WO 111 G.W. Weatherbie is shown/listed as being with the Essex R(T) and supposedly wearing a SALH badge but, his cap badge looks like RCA. Again, IMHO an impressive period photograph.
Jo

[Bill A]

In reference to the patch on the sleeve of the NCO's, here is an image of two different variations of the Instructional Cadre "trade patch".
There were no cloth formation patches in use in the Canadian army prior to WW2. The CEF battle patches, which were allowed to be worn by members of the CEF who continued to serve in the post First WW militia, had been ordered removed by January 1, 1929.

[Voltigeur]

Beautiful items,Bill.
Jo

[Phillip Herring]

DavidS,
The PPCLI officers' capbadge is gilt cypher on silver annulus/crown, voided. Perfectly legitimate.

Lt JH Levesque went on to command both the Royal Canadian Dragoons and the British Columbia Dragoons.
I am curious as to the source of the names. Was the original photograph annotated? I only ask because M9 sure looks like a very young Dan Spry, or am I out to lunch?
Phil

[WJ Miller]

Bill, thanks for posting those IC patches, very nice.

Jo, I noticed the discrepancy in Weatherbie's description too. I also think it is an RCA badge.

I looked up some of the names in the photo last night:

Lt. TG Gibson went on to become Brig. TG Gibson, CBE, DSO, ED. Started his career with the QOR in 1925. With the RCR in 1931, Went overseas in 1940, served as a Staff Officer with 2 CID, was briefly the CO of the RWR and promoted to Brigadier in 1943, 2CIB.

Captain DC O'Brien became Maj. O'Brien, MBE with #2CACRU in England (1942)

Lt. JAG Roberge became Lt. Col. Roberge, OBE. Went overseas as a GSO in 1 CID, came back to Canada later in the war and was the CO of the Voltigeurs and when they disbanded, commanded the Regt. de St. Hyacinthe.

Here is a link to the DND's database of honours and awards:
http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-.../index-eng.asp