crossed muskets or rifles

[grumpy]

The purpose of this post is to ask for facts or opinions on when the "marksman" family of badges changed the weapons depicted.

In researching our book on "proficiency badges" Denis Edwards and I never came close to pinning down a date [or a range of dates] when crossed muskets were replaced by crossed rifles.

Clearly crossed rifle badges are not likely worn to be before the rifle depicted was in service, but, then again, identifying what the seamstress was trying to depict is not easy.

we certainly have seen "sort of"

Brown Bess muskets

pre-SMLE rifles

SMLEs

and rifles which appear to attempt to portray a sniper's weapons.

Of course the situation is obscured by the need to use existing stocks and possibly by unit tradition or private purchase. A very grey area.

[grumpy]

anyone, please?

[RCN]

Grumpy, look in the RN SECTION, FIRST POST UP - Marksman badges pre 1890 - may not be of much assistance to you, but gives some photos of Marksman badges for that timeframe.
Sorry unable to post link as away from my Laptop, on my tablet, travelling.


RCN Bryan

[grumpy]

Thank you, I have had a good look. All but one appear to be pesky muskets!

[grumpy]

As an example of official confusion of terms, VR Regs 1891 has "muskets" if one passed the Army Part V., and a horizontal "rifle" for those restricted by range availability.

[grumpy]

allowing a little for seamstresses' licence, there are at least six variants of the "gun" depicted over the years. Only slimly dateable.