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  #31  
Old 23-01-18, 12:55 AM
SAS1 SAS1 is offline
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I'd think earlier in the war the issue uniform.was, as initially stated by Jon, officer and airmans pattern uniform. As in the RAF battledress would have become more widely worn as a working uniform, especially by those who found themselves in Germany, France, Holland etc. As mentioned in my earlier post the photo I have of Pickard is of him in battledress and he must have been SD as he wasn't in the RAF per se.

The photo of George Edwards is also in bd with something on the shoulder (unclear but it must be the SD badge)

RAF officer tunics were barathea wool rather than gaberdine cotton (wartime RAF private purchase raincoats were generally gaberdine but they are distinct in not having straps to the shoulder).

The question of ROC officer's wearing bd is one I've tried to find the answer to for ages but I've never seen it. ATC officer's were not permitted bd. As for WAAFs, all ranks were issued battledress from about mid 1943 and they were quite often worn with service dress skirt.
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  #32  
Old 23-01-18, 07:10 PM
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Jon, as white metal examples exist of the "circled' badge in addition to chrome do you think that's just a variety or could it possibly a 'lower ranks version, bearing in mind the specified chrome version noted in your original post?
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  #33  
Old 23-01-18, 07:57 PM
blueboy684 blueboy684 is offline
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Default Cast version

I have a locally made cast version which is very slightly smaller than the chrome version. Another photo to upload when I am able!!
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  #34  
Old 23-01-18, 09:40 PM
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Thanks blueboy, I'd like to see that. I wonder where it originated from? I know Special Duties bods were out in the far East at the end of the war,
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  #35  
Old 24-01-18, 07:05 PM
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This is the photo of Dr George Pickard I mentioned, and as you can see he is wearing standard RAF battledress and what appears to be Squadron Leader rank. He was certainly a civilian at the end of the war and I would assume on Special Duties, so the RAF rank and lack of SD badges is a bit of a mystery. Unfortunately the cap badge is not clear enough.

Might explain why there are so many of the Special Duties badges still around!

It was taken in late 1944.
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File Type: jpg Pickard 1944.jpg (33.4 KB, 36 views)
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  #36  
Old 25-01-18, 02:27 PM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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I've come up with a radical-but-possible explanation for the Special Duties cap-badges (and possibly also for the arm badges).

This could be for at least some of the circumstances (but may have had a wider significance).

Put simply, I think that the RAF Special Duties cap-badge was intended (at least in part) to be worn by Officers commissioned into what appears to have been an "Administrative and Special Duties" branch of the RAF Volunteer Reserve. In other words, potentially these individuals were not all civilians: at least some were on full wartime emergency commissions.

My research in the Gazette seems to indicate the earliest instance of Special Duties Officers in the RAFVR as being February 1939.

However: there also other officers commissioned into the Admin&SD branch of the RAFVR that are recorded as being awarded "honorary commissions".

I'll attach cuttings from the Gazette, but could I also make a broader proposition (which could either be accepted at face-value, or pursued by looking in detail at contemporary editions of AP1358) that if there was actually a dress regulation that Officers in the Special Duties Branch of the RAFVR were to wear the chrome/silver 'Special Duties' cap-badge, it is entirely-possible that this direction could either have been unofficially ignored (and Special Duties Officers would've then just frequently worn standard RAF Officers' cap-badges, and retained their Special Duties ones as keepsakes); or, any such regulation may then have been officially rescinded (with then the reverse case holding true, and the wearing of Special Duties cap-badges would've become extremely rare- or (conceivably?) been continued only by those listed as having "honorary commissions"?


(Surely there cannot have been two parallel Royal Air Force associated branches in WW2 named "Special Duties"?)
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File Type: jpg 2018-01-25 13.34.52.jpg (70.5 KB, 113 views)

Last edited by Harlequin; 25-01-18 at 05:51 PM.
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  #37  
Old 25-01-18, 02:28 PM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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(the above example has been picked by me to evidence that individuals were being directly-commissioned as senior officers (ie Sqn Ldr and above) in the Admin & Special Duties branch of the RAFVR, in addition to Junior Offrs, not long after the branch was raised in Feb 1939)

ps I think I have found a handful of 'Pickards' listed in the Admin&SD branch of the RAFVR (honorary and main branch), but none named George. Do we have any alternative first-names, or date of appointment, for the intriguing Dr Pickard?

pps we may be looking for detail from AIR 2/3994 at Kew, which is described as RESERVE AND AUXILIARY FORCES (Code B, 66): Formation of administrative and special duties branch (reference in its original department: 871868/39). This document has not currently been digitised (unfortunately).

At present, I don't have the time or opportunity myself to get down to Kew, so another option may be for me to place a formal paid-for order to see a copy feasibility report. Unless we have any volunteers to go and do some old-fashioned physical research in the archives?
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File Type: jpg 2018-01-25 13.49.02.jpg (56.2 KB, 114 views)

Last edited by Harlequin; 25-01-18 at 05:50 PM.
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  #38  
Old 25-01-18, 08:39 PM
grumpy grumpy is offline
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The practice of commissioning civilians into ranks substantially higher than Pilot Officer or Flying Officer was not, as I am sure you know, unusual.
Early cases of military rapid advancement were common in the Great War, with specialists such as engineers and chemists in great demand.

When the RAF began the practise I do not know, but meteorologists [my profession] were essential, and the most able and senior could not be put into uniform many grades below their "equivalent military rank". A well known example is Group Captain Stagg, of D Day forecast fame.

During the cold war, civilian forecasters in British Forces Germany were given Dormant Commissions [RAFVR] which needed only signing to be actioned in Transition to War. Thus at various times there was a Flt Lts uniform [and a pistol!], a Sqn Ldrs uniform, and a Group Captain's uniform held in store for me. Fortunately for all of us, I never got to pretending to be an officer.

This is a long-winded approach to wondering if some of those Special Duties officers might have been Met. men or some equally shady bunch!
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  #39  
Old 25-01-18, 09:56 PM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
The practice of commissioning civilians into ranks substantially higher than Pilot Officer or Flying Officer was not, as I am sure you know, unusual.
I'm entirely-familiar with the approach, for various specialist professions (as a former reservist with residual commissioned status myself).

We both then fully-understand that the reason people such as yourself as a Met Office civilian were commissioned into the RAFVR was to allow the two-way application of military law/discipline/authority in connection with a Transition To War process.

But the key point is that when someone in a civilian capacity with a 'dormant commission' (as you're describing it) was mobilised, effectively they ceased to be a civilian.

I previously had believed that the circular silver eagle-and-crown Special Duties capbadges were intended solely for people who remained civilians, despite being in RAF uniform. As we're all aware of, the biggest contingent that fitted this description was the ROC (I was an Observer for many years before joining the RAuxAF).

As I've stated, I am now seriously-wondering whether or not the main wearer category for these silver capbadges could have been the Special Duties branch of the RAFVR. But if this was the case, these individuals in uniform were not civilians.

It would be fascinating to get confirmation of this, either photographic evidence, or a properly-contemporary edition of AP1358 (which, incidentally, was originally the dress regulations reference only for all Air Force Officers, and not for WOs/ORs). I shall continue to dig.
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  #40  
Old 25-01-18, 10:27 PM
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Although it's a source I rarely rely on for anything, Wikipedia has a good write up...

'The RAF Intelligence Branch dates back to 1939 following the outbreak of the*Second World War, however personnel have been employed in intelligence duties since the formation of the RAF in 1918. At the time, officers of the General Duties (GD) Branch (mainly trained pilots on a ground tour or who for medical reasons could no longer fly) performed the duty of Squadron Intelligence/Protection Officer, or aircrew on ground tours in the*Air Ministry*Intelligence Department. By the late 1939 there was a dedicated Intelligence Branch, called the GD (Admin) branch which later evolved into the*Administrative and Special Duties Branch (for Intelligence duties), also adopted by other commonwealth nations...'

There was clearly a distinction between the RAF Special Duties Branch, and men engaged on 'Special Duties'.
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  #41  
Old 25-01-18, 10:36 PM
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Harlequin, thank you.

I hope that I am not splitting hairs, but surely someone in RAF uniform [except for a badge or two] who remained a civilian would have a very dodgy status re. the Geneva Convention? No F 1250 or whatever number the ID was?

Incidentally the wording Dormant Commission was indeed official .... I still have my last letter, needing only a date and a signature to send the minstrel boy to war with his pine cones, sea weed and pistol. Oh! and a natty pair of goves, brown.
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  #42  
Old 25-01-18, 11:59 PM
Harlequin Harlequin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpy View Post
Harlequin, thank you.

I hope that I am not splitting hairs, but surely someone in RAF uniform [except for a badge or two] who remained a civilian would have a very dodgy status re. the Geneva Convention? No F 1250 or whatever number the ID was?
During WW2, there were clearly a number of people/formations that wore uniforms yet were not classified as combatants from a Geneva Convention perspective.

I freely admit to having much-greater interest in all things Air Force, including the more-forgotten civilian elements such as ROC / CTC / ATA / ATC etc

Certainly there were a number of anomalies regarding the civilian status of ROC members during WW2, since at Observation Post level they often had Lee-Enfields wrapped in greasy brown paper, propped in the corner, and also their Officers were often armed with Webleys (I know this to be true via direct testimony from people who served at that time). Had the invasion happened, and fighting had started in the streets, I have no doubt that a significant proportion of the Type A ROC Observers would've fought alongside the remnants of the Home Guard, and potentially been shot if captured rather than treated as POWs (once identified as not being attested members of the military).

I had always believed that the wearers of RAF Special Duties silver cap-badges were pure civilians in uniform, not wearing any rank, and as such were in a similar non-combatant sphere to the ROC. But I (and others) may have been wrong about that.

Perhaps a significant proportion of these badges were actually issued to, and worn by, mobilised members of the RAFVR.
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  #43  
Old 28-01-18, 09:05 AM
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One other thought on this badge (well the cap badge anyway). During the war the set was introduced for a variety of people - artists, correspondents, scientists and aircraft designers/specialists etc who needed some form of recognition whrn moving around, although its debatable how fully it was worn by those types.

Just post war it was authorised for Chaplains Assistants too, the 'trade' it's most associated with. As there would have been little need for the others (artists etc) to have been in uniform as we moved into the 50s, would the badge have ended it's days just worn by the Chaplains Assistants (being the reason it's associated with them) and when was it abolished, if indeed it was?
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  #44  
Old 30-01-18, 10:24 PM
blueboy684 blueboy684 is offline
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Default Special Duties Pictures

I don't know if this is going to work - hopefully there will be a picture of the following Special Duties badges that I photographed in the Reserve Collection at RAF Stafford on the dates shown:

Special Duties cloth badge (Jun 2005)

Special Duties armband (Mar 2005)

The metal badges are from my own collection and show the familiar chrome version together with the locally manufactured cast version I mentioned.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Special Duties Cloth.jpg (27.8 KB, 20 views)
File Type: jpg Special Duties Armband.jpg (14.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg Official Duties Chrome & Cast.jpg (89.0 KB, 27 views)
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  #45  
Old 30-01-18, 10:55 PM
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That's fantastic, thanks for posting. A cracking armband!
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