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  #1  
Old 17-06-17, 07:22 PM
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Default Para Wings & Money Pouch

I have an interesting wartime money pouch which belonged to a member of 3rd Bat Para Regt A coy. There must have been at some point para wings sewn on it, but much smaller than the usual badge.
On the photo you can see the comparison in size between the two.
Any idea about the type of wings it could have been?
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File Type: jpg Money Pouch - Para 3rd - Batt A Company.jpg (48.2 KB, 197 views)
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  #2  
Old 17-06-17, 07:34 PM
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Mess dress wing are usually smaller I think.
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  #3  
Old 17-06-17, 07:56 PM
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Normal wings but the khaki surround cut off.
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  #4  
Old 17-06-17, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBOND View Post
Mess dress wing are usually smaller I think.
Hi Jerry,
I haven't seen any WW2 example: it looks like some were produced in India at the time. Would you be able to share photos?
Thanks
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  #5  
Old 17-06-17, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
Normal wings but the khaki surround cut off.
Hi Alan,

Nice idea...but doesn't work: the inner wings are 74mm by 28mm (at least on the 5 para wings in my collection) and the shadow I have on the pouch gives 69 x 28mm.
Could it be some sort of bullion wings?

Thanks
Pierre
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  #6  
Old 18-06-17, 12:05 AM
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Was mess dress worn at all during the time of 3rd Bn? Or is the pouch possibly of a later date? Are Indian made para wings the same size as British made ones?

Rgds, Thomas.
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  #7  
Old 18-06-17, 06:46 AM
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Yes, they will have been, the older post war examples do vary a little in size, but, your measurements are correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Hi Alan,

Nice idea...but doesn't work: the inner wings are 74mm by 28mm (at least on the 5 para wings in my collection) and the shadow I have on the pouch gives 69 x 28mm.
Could it be some sort of bullion wings?

Thanks
Pierre
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  #8  
Old 18-06-17, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fougasse1940 View Post
Was mess dress worn at all during the time of 3rd Bn? Or is the pouch possibly of a later date? Are Indian made para wings the same size as British made ones?

Rgds, Thomas.
According to Oliver Lock (p271 in his book), 2" dress wings were in use from 1946 onwards but they are too small to fit on the pouch.
It looks like the only alternative would have been standard wings (or private purchase sample) cut to dimensions. Unless anyone knows about the existence of para wings smaller than standard pattern and larger than dress wings...
The pouch seems wartime and I found a 1943 half penny in it.
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  #9  
Old 18-06-17, 08:11 PM
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The bullion wings worn on the blues do vary in size, as mentioned, certainly on average, the very early post war examples can be well over two inches, so I think you were actually correct the first time round.
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  #10  
Old 19-06-17, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kelley View Post
The bullion wings worn on the blues do vary in size, as mentioned, certainly on average, the very early post war examples can be well over two inches, so I think you were actually correct the first time round.
Thanks Frank.
Would you have any details about measurements? Any photo to share?
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  #11  
Old 19-06-17, 06:16 AM
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Yes, you are very much on the money with your measurements, this example is 65mm.
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  #12  
Old 19-06-17, 06:18 AM
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This example is 69mm and is older, but, as I said, they do vary quite a bit.
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  #13  
Old 20-06-17, 12:54 AM
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Thanks a lot for sharing, Frank.
Your wings show clearly that despite prescribed 2" dress wings since 1946, larger ones were circulating. It looks like a sealed pattern (gold and silver on blue) was defined in 1950 with a unique size.
It is possible the wings on the pouch would have been some of the earlier pattern.
I would be actively looking for one of this type!
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  #14  
Old 20-06-17, 07:31 AM
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Hello,
In my opinion it really is not something you need to dwell upon, if you take a period of a decade or so from the point the regiment started wearing it's blues, you will encounter a number of differing wings.
These are merely manufacturers variations, a couple of millimetres here and there, it does not matter at all, everyone wore them and I am very sure if you picked a dozen different toms and in particular, officers, all serving at the same point in time, you might well see half a dozen differing wings.
So many little companies made them, Fabb, Marland's, Simpson's and so forth.
I deliberately picked two earlier and very different examples to make that point, but, there were many others and you should have absolutely no issue whatsoever in finding an example.
Regards Frank
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File Type: jpg P1030200.jpg (33.2 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg P1030199.jpg (32.6 KB, 50 views)
File Type: jpg P1030198.jpg (28.0 KB, 50 views)
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  #15  
Old 20-06-17, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcrown View Post
Hi Jerry,
I haven't seen any WW2 example: it looks like some were produced in India at the time. Would you be able to share photos?
Thanks
Sorry but no, it was merely intended as a suggestion as to something else to consider rather than the "standard" wings.

It seems that early post war mess wings do indeed fit the bill.
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